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Thread: Wisconsin Gov. Scott Walker survives recall effort, NBC News projects

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    Re: Wisconsin Gov. Scott Walker survives recall effort, NBC News projects


    It's a long story, dateing back to comcast forums & my computer illitericy. I may share it sometime.

    Quote Originally Posted by MaggieD View Post
    Don't laugh your ass off just yet. Please show us factually why right-to-work laws have anything to do with some states having a lower average wage than others.

    Why are you using stupid-sized fonts and all bold? We'll read your posts without signal flares.

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    Re: Wisconsin Gov. Scott Walker survives recall effort, NBC News projects

    How's the middleclass & working poor doing in those states???

    Quote Originally Posted by American View Post
    Like Virginia and Texas?

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    Re: Wisconsin Gov. Scott Walker survives recall effort, NBC News projects

    Quote Originally Posted by jpevans View Post
    How's the middleclass & working poor doing in those states???
    Please show us the correlation between right-to-work laws and income. (Second request.)

    BTW, RTW state wages are 9% lower than others. However, more importantly, their cost of living is 19% lower. Hmmm.

    Right-to-work law - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
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    Re: Wisconsin Gov. Scott Walker survives recall effort, NBC News projects

    Quote Originally Posted by jpevans View Post
    Right to work states have a lower average wage.
    How do you know that's not a coincidence? Have you considered workforce structure (age and education) and industry structure, etc. How have those states fared since adopting "right to work laws" vs. those without such laws as would have been predicted by changes in their workforce and industry structure? Moreover, is the average wage (I'm assuming you mean full compensation that includes benefits) the only or best metric for assessing the value or lack thereof of right to work laws? Is the major impact of such laws economic nor non-economic (e.g., shifting the political funding landscape by creating barriers to labor union growth)?

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    Re: Wisconsin Gov. Scott Walker survives recall effort, NBC News projects

    Walker won. Nuff said.

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    Re: Wisconsin Gov. Scott Walker survives recall effort, NBC News projects

    Quote Originally Posted by donsutherland1 View Post
    How do you know that's not a coincidence? [...]
    Rational thought is all that is needed to determine that it's not a coincidence. An argument that unions are not the reason that union wages are higher than non-union wages, overall, would be an example of a lack of rational thought.

    If rational thought is lacking, then any argument or debate on the matter would be pointless.
    Last edited by Karl; 06-11-12 at 12:16 PM.

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    Re: Wisconsin Gov. Scott Walker survives recall effort, NBC News projects

    Quote Originally Posted by Karl View Post
    Rational thought is all that is needed to determine that it's not a coincidence. An argument that unions are not the reason that union wages are higher than non-union wages, overall, would be an example of a lack of rational thought.

    If rational thought is lacking, then any argument or debate on the matter would be pointless.
    What might appear to be "rational" is not necessarily the same thing as something that is supported by empirical evidence. FWIW, the economic literature on Right-to-Work is mixed. Some data suggests a modest adverse impact on salaries and wages and per capita income and a modest benefit to proprietors' incomes. Other data suggests that income patterns are largely a product of enduring structural economic conditions. Two examples.

    One might expect that right-to-work legislation would help “revive” a state’s economy because businesses would be more amenable to moving to those states with right-to-work laws. While the results of this study empirically support that right-to-work states are likely to have more self-employment and less bankruptcies on average relative to non-right-to-work states, there is certainly no more business capital formation as measured by the number of businesses and the ratio of firm “births” to total firms in right-to-work states. Moreover, from a state’s economic standpoint, being right-to-work yields little or no gain in employment and real economic growth. Wages and personal income are both lower in right-to-work states, yet proprietors’ income is higher, ceteris paribus. As a result, while right-to-work states may maintain a somewhat better business environment relative to non-right-to-work states, these benefits do not necessarily translate into increased economic verve for the right-to-work states as a whole—there appears to be little “trickle-down” tothe largely non-unionized workforce in these states.
    Source: Lonnie K. Stevans, “The Effect of Endogenous Right-to-Work Laws on Business and Economic Conditions in the United States: A Multivariate Approach,” Review of Law and Economics, 2009.

    For those looking for the differences in per capital personal income, salaries and wages, and proprietors' income, per capital personal income was 0.4% lower in right-to-work states and average wages and salaries were 2.3% lower in right-to-work states. In contrast, properietors’ income was 1.9% higher in right-to-work states. All three variables were statistically significant at a 99% level of confidence.

    I find that after accounting for the influence of economic conditions that were present when states adopted Right-to-Work laws, RTW states have significantly higher wages than would otherwise be expected. This finding is robust across a wide variety of model specifications. Perhaps surprisingly, past economic conditions “explain” a large amount of the variation in current state wages.
    Source: W. Robert Reed, “How Right-To-Work Laws Affect Wages,” Journal of Labor Research, Fall 2003.

    The bottom line is that the economic literature is mixed. Where there seems to be agreement is that the impact of right-to-work laws on major economic variables is probably small. It's not an economic panacea or recipe for economic destruction as exaggerated popular commentary might seem to suggest.

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    Re: Wisconsin Gov. Scott Walker survives recall effort, NBC News projects

    Quote Originally Posted by jpevans View Post
    Right to work states have a lower average wage.
    Besides what MaggieD said I should point out that we also have lower prices.
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    Re: Wisconsin Gov. Scott Walker survives recall effort, NBC News projects

    Quote Originally Posted by Kal'Stang View Post
    Besides what MaggieD said I should point out that we also have lower prices.
    Not to mention, more jobs:

    RTW Jobs.JPG
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    Re: Wisconsin Gov. Scott Walker survives recall effort, NBC News projects

    Seems awfully close to be pure coincidence....

    unionincome.jpg
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