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Thread: Wisconsin Gov. Scott Walker survives recall effort, NBC News projects

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    Re: Wisconsin Gov. Scott Walker survives recall effort, NBC News projects

    Quote Originally Posted by AdamT View Post
    Obviously Wisconsin did not raise taxes every year before Walker. What he did is take advantage of the temporary problem that every state faced as a result of the Great Recession in order to permanently eliminate public sector collective bargaining rights and effectively kill the public sector unions. This has more to do with politics (eliminating a major Democratic funding source) than it does with budget concerns.
    I wonder if any democrat finds it a bit pathetic they need government power to fund their campaigns.

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    Re: Wisconsin Gov. Scott Walker survives recall effort, NBC News projects

    Quote Originally Posted by winston53660 View Post
    Well an increase in private sector employment over public sector employment........
    Something conservatives generally cream their pants merely at the thought of it happening... unless it's happening under Obama.
    Last edited by poweRob; 06-09-12 at 03:17 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Moderate Right View Post
    The sad fact is that having a pedophile win is better than having a Democrat in office. I'm all for a solution where a Republican gets in that isn't Moore.

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    Quote Originally Posted by AdamT View Post
    Of course he did! WTF do you think this whole thing is about?

    Wis. governor signs bill to curb union rights - politics - More politics - msnbc.com



    Obviously Wisconsin did not raise taxes every year before Walker. What he did is take advantage of the temporary problem that every state faced as a result of the Great Recession in order to permanently eliminate public sector collective bargaining rights and effectively kill the public sector unions. This has more to do with politics (eliminating a major Democratic funding source) than it does with budget concerns.
    Again, Walker IS NOT ELIMINATING union collective bargaining rights. CURBING collective bargaining does not mean ELIMINATING.

    If the public sector employees don't like what Walker is doing, are they not free to get a private sector job?
    Last edited by The Man; 06-09-12 at 03:18 PM.

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    Re: Wisconsin Gov. Scott Walker survives recall effort, NBC News projects

    Quote Originally Posted by Zyphlin View Post
    I'll double check, but I'm pretty sure Perot was over 20% at some point PRIOR to the debates (and prior to originally dropping out). Even if they did institute the 15% rule after him, which I'm not sure on that but is possible, he'd still have met that requirement.

    Ah, here we go...

    Gallup Poll. From April to Mid June, Perot managed to poll at 24% or higher, topping out at 39% (actually leading Clinton and Bush). Mind you this was before any "debates" occured and he managed those numbers. While his numbers prior to the debate...and note, post him dropping out of the race...had dropped, starting at 8% when he came back in and hovering in the low 10's prior to the debate (The Gallup picture doesn't show specific dates). It did rise some, but even after getting on the debates Perot never managed to get back to the numbers he originally was showing. But its unquestionable that during the year of the Presidential election Perot managed to get above 15% in a national opinion poll. Not only did he get above it, he managed to more than double that amount.

    Gallop was the only national poll I could easily find information on for back then.

    Conversely...

    Johnson has managed 7% support in a Public Policy Polling national poll recently. Beyond that he's not been listed, but "other" has managed 1% in a CNN naitonal poll, 1% in an ABC/WaPo national poll, and 3% in a Fox News national poll. He doesn't seem to blip on the gallop radar on first look.

    Perot, prior to debates, managed to make a compelling enough appeal to the American people to garner significant and substantial public support to the point where he actually lead in a national poll during the election year. He gave compelling and significant reason why he should be part of the debates...not because he needed them to get support but because he HAD support and thus should be in them. Johnson can't even crack 10% support at this point in one poll let alone potentially consistently over a few.
    It was perot's dropping out that killed him. I swore that guy looked like he was bound for the whitehouse before that happened. And he was totally pwning both in the debates. Especially when they asked him about experience... His reply was something like, "Yeah they got me there... I don't have any experience running up a $1.5 trillion deficit."

    Still think that the debates can change everything. Although the amount of money that is getting thrown around by the two parties these days... makes it look like you are dogmeat if you were to make a dent in their mutual leads over everyone else.
    Quote Originally Posted by Moderate Right View Post
    The sad fact is that having a pedophile win is better than having a Democrat in office. I'm all for a solution where a Republican gets in that isn't Moore.

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    Re: Wisconsin Gov. Scott Walker survives recall effort, NBC News projects

    Quote Originally Posted by The Man View Post
    Again, Walker DID NOT eliminate collective bargaining. Show us evidence that he did.
    Quote Originally Posted by AdamT View Post
    Of course he did! WTF do you think this whole thing is about?
    Wis. governor signs bill to curb union rights - politics - More politics - msnbc.com
    From your link “Wisconsin Gov. Scott Walker has officially taken away nearly all collective bargaining rights from the vast majority of the state's public employees.”

    Does ‘nearly all’ equate to ‘eliminate’?

    Further reading:

    As for the other public employees -- a much larger group that includes schoolteachers, local government workers and about half of 76,000 state employees -- the bill would allow collective bargaining only on a base pay rate (not overtime or special pay issues), and on raises only within the rate of inflation. That means no bargaining on fringe benefits, working conditions, outsourcing, safety and other issues.
    PolitiFact Wisconsin | Wisconsin AFL-CIO says Gov. Scott Walker

    It would appear that Walker DID NOT ELIMINATE collective bargaining rights for ALL public workers but HE DID SOME OF THEM…can we stipulate to that?

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    Re: Wisconsin Gov. Scott Walker survives recall effort, NBC News projects

    Quote Originally Posted by jpevans View Post
    They (R's) broke a contract.
    1: They were negotiating a contract. It wasn't a done deal as such no contract was broke.

    2: Show me the contract that prohibited any future legislation that would deny collective bargaining. Good luck proving a negative.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dickieboy View Post
    From your link “Wisconsin Gov. Scott Walker has officially taken away nearly all collective bargaining rights from the vast majority of the state's public employees.”

    Does ‘nearly all’ equate to ‘eliminate’?

    Further reading:

    As for the other public employees -- a much larger group that includes schoolteachers, local government workers and about half of 76,000 state employees -- the bill would allow collective bargaining only on a base pay rate (not overtime or special pay issues), and on raises only within the rate of inflation. That means no bargaining on fringe benefits, working conditions, outsourcing, safety and other issues.
    PolitiFact Wisconsin | Wisconsin AFL-CIO says Gov. Scott Walker

    It would appear that Walker DID NOT ELIMINATE collective bargaining rights for ALL public workers but HE DID SOME OF THEM…can we stipulate to that?
    As far as working conditions, there are already laws that dictate satisfactory working conditions and worker safety. There's no negotiations needed for that.

    And as far as raises only within the rate of inflation, what's wrong with that? I say to them: Welcome to reality. And overtime should never be guaranteed to begin with.
    Last edited by The Man; 06-09-12 at 03:40 PM.

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    Re: Wisconsin Gov. Scott Walker survives recall effort, NBC News projects

    Quote Originally Posted by The Man View Post
    Where I live (which we do have good/above average public schooling), public school teachers in even the worst public schools get paid better, and have better benefits than teachers in the best of private schools, and the private schools have better performance (and no teachers unions).

    One thing that I've always been a proponent of is eliminating tenure for teachers in unions. That would incentivize them to perform better, rather than just rely on their seniority for job security.
    The reason private schools perfrom better is they're student population is different. Many are selective. The schools themselves do nothing particularly different than public schools.

    Most places are eliminating tenure, but that isn't a cure all. It's effect will be minimal, but no real objection from me. However, even tenured teachers can lose their job. Most places, union or not, have procedures in which the employer has to go through to fire people. This is largely fair.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

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    Re: Wisconsin Gov. Scott Walker survives recall effort, NBC News projects

    Quote Originally Posted by ttwtt78640 View Post
    The criteria is simple. What is the minimum required salary/benefits to attract well qualified applicants? Compute that and add perhaps 5% and go from there. You do not need to compete with ALL private schools, only those near you. The insane Idea that a federal gov't position must offer pay suitable to NYC or DC, in an office in TN or MS, makes no sense at all. Public education has FAR more managers and support personnel per student/teacher than private schools as well. Many ignore that more than half of public education labor costs are not for classsroom teachers, while that is not so for private schools.
    Not necessarily. There are other reasons people work at private schools, and wouldn't want to work at a public school. It is easier to look good when you have good students and don't have to deal with the problems of the general population. And you can have that benefit and not face the lack of respect public school teachers face.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

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    Re: Wisconsin Gov. Scott Walker survives recall effort, NBC News projects

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    That begs a lot of questions. Do the tax payers all have the same pay and benefits package, and what should be the critieria for getting any package? And which package are we measuring them against?
    There are no "begging questions". The folks that work for the state are being paid by the state and if they're getting better benefits that most of those who are paying for these bennies, then the bennie payers get to call the shots. And they did with the re-election of Gov. Walker, IMO.

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