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Thread: Wisconsin Gov. Scott Walker survives recall effort, NBC News projects

  1. #911
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    Quote Originally Posted by Karl View Post
    LOL... the personal insults keep on rolling. What happened to your argument? I gotta go to work guys, but I'll check in later this afternoon to see if you've managed to come up with a good story explaining all that stuff you're now dodging. TTFN.
    Personal insults??? By whom?

    Maybe while you're at work you can formulate answers to the questions you haven't answered?
    Last edited by The Man; 06-09-12 at 11:15 AM.

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    Re: Wisconsin Gov. Scott Walker survives recall effort, NBC News projects

    Quote Originally Posted by The Man View Post
    Personal insult??? By whom?

    Maybe while you're at work you can formulate answers to the questions you haven't answered?
    Well, just informed that my schedule has shifted an hour or so, therefore you get a short reprieve.

    Your posts have turned into nothing but a series of insults with no redeeming argument. More of the same above. Again I'll summarize your failings.

    1. You claimed, effectively, that Walker campaigned on eliminating/severely restricting union bargaining rights. You failed to evidence that when asked (of course, it is likely untrue, making evidence difficult in the least).

    2. You made a bogus claim about mandatory union membership. You failed to evidence this when asked. While some states require payment of a dues equivalent, mandatory requirement to join a union was made illegal nearly a century ago by the Taft-Hartley Act

    Instead of admitting those failings, you now want to go on the personal attack. Repeatedly. What would be the point in my participating in that schoolyard game, when your argument has quite clearly failed?

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    Re: Wisconsin Gov. Scott Walker survives recall effort, NBC News projects

    Quote Originally Posted by Conservative, replying to Karl View Post
    And what collective bargaining rights have been stripped from UNIONS? Do you know the difference between a public union and a private union? [...]
    An argument based on semantics. Priceless

    Quote Originally Posted by Conservative, replying to Karl View Post
    Comparing union bargaining rights to the Holocaust? When are you going to get some activist judge to overthrow the will of the people?
    Fanaticism as an argument. Priceless
    Last edited by Karl; 06-09-12 at 11:28 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Karl View Post
    Well, just informed that my schedule has shifted an hour or so, therefore you get a short reprieve.

    Your posts have turned into nothing but a series of insults with no redeeming argument. More of the same above. Again I'll summarize your failings.

    1. You claimed, effectively, that Walker campaigned on eliminating/severely restricting union bargaining rights. You failed to evidence that when asked (of course, it is likely untrue, making evidence difficult in the least).

    2. You made a bogus claim about mandatory union membership. You failed to evidence this when asked. While some states require payment of a dues equivalent, mandatory requirement to join a union was made illegal nearly a century ago by the Taft-Hartley Act

    Instead of admitting those failings, you now want to go on the personal attack. Repeatedly. What would be the point in my participating in that schoolyard game, when your argument has quite clearly failed?
    So, how is Walker breaking unions?

    And what "personal insults" have I thrown at you?

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    Re: Wisconsin Gov. Scott Walker survives recall effort, NBC News projects

    Quote Originally Posted by ARealConservative, replying to Karl View Post
    I summarized it for you
    I didn't see, it, and you refuse to link it or quote it, but it's really there somewhere. Got it.

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    Re: Wisconsin Gov. Scott Walker survives recall effort, NBC News projects

    Quote Originally Posted by The Man View Post
    So, how is Walker breaking unions? [...]
    Your argument is that stripping essentially all collective bargaining rights from a union, and legislating that the members do not have to pay dues, is not breaking it? Really?

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    Re: Wisconsin Gov. Scott Walker survives recall effort, NBC News projects

    Quote Originally Posted by Karl View Post
    Your argument is that stripping essentially all collective bargaining rights from a union, and legislating that the members do not have to pay dues, is not breaking it? Really?
    You confuse not accepting an offer with not allowing the offer. The key difference in the demorats and the republicants is that the demorats, that get massive campaign cash and political support from the gov't employee unions simply said YES to the offers, while Walker finally said NO. Allowing union membership to be an OPTION is not taking away any gov't employee's right to join (or remain in) the union. It is, however taking away the right of the UNION to demand those dues regardless of whether the gov't employee feels that they are being used productively. Imagine how a WI, GOP supporting, gov't union member felt, with their MANDATORY union dues being given to "recall" the very governor that they voted for?

    Too allow a minority (gov't workers) to dictate labor policy to the majority (the taxpayer/voters) is insane. Why should we, the people, be forced to cede labor negotiating power to the few among us that CHOOSE to work in the gov't jobs that we offer? If 2% of the public works for the gov't, then barely over 1% get to be the sole deciders of whether a gov't union can come to exist. In non right-to-work states that means that ALL gov't employees must pay union dues, and ALL taxpayers must honor any contract made with them.

    If the gov't has the "right" to alter SS retirement ages AFTER that citizen has been required to pay SS taxation (but has not yet attained the benefit age), we should certainly be able to alter a "labor contract" that assigns retirement benfits for ANY gov't worker that has not yet retired. It is time to stop the madness of treating ONLY gov't employees, not the citizens that must support them trough taxation, as "super citizens" with special union contract rights that are not applicable to ALL citizens.

    After all of the screaming in WI about how "unfair" the union teachers were treated one would expect a mass exodus of these highly qualified and educated folks, yet NONE (as far as I know) quit and the applictaions for these positions are still backed up with hundreds waiting for an opening. Many simply stopped supporting the union wth THEIR money voluntarily once given the option.
    Last edited by ttwtt78640; 06-09-12 at 11:54 AM.
    “The reasonable man adapts himself to the world: the unreasonable one persists to adapt the world to himself.
    Therefore all progress depends on the unreasonable man.” ― George Bernard Shaw, Man and Superman

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    Re: Wisconsin Gov. Scott Walker survives recall effort, NBC News projects

    Quote Originally Posted by Karl View Post
    1. You claimed, effectively, that Walker campaigned on eliminating/severely restricting union bargaining rights. You failed to evidence that when asked (of course, it is likely untrue, making evidence difficult in the least).
    It would appear that your position is based on the bolded word above. Your argument could be alternatively be interpreted as ‘you didn’t say it specifically so I will imply what you meant…now prove my interpretation’…typically your tactic…Nice

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    Re: Wisconsin Gov. Scott Walker survives recall effort, NBC News projects

    Quote Originally Posted by Karl View Post
    I'll answer your question when you answer mine, which I've asked twice now.

    Third time: However, can you at least provide evidence that during the campaign he said he was going to eliminate collective bargaining for state employees?
    You act like Walker did something wrong.

    Walker should be given a medal for busting the unions.

  10. #920
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    Re: Wisconsin Gov. Scott Walker survives recall effort, NBC News projects

    Quote Originally Posted by ttwtt78640 View Post
    You confuse not accepting an offer with not allowing the offer. The key difference in the demorats and the republicants is that the demorats, that get massive campaign cash and political support from the gov't employee unions simply said YES to the offers, while Walker finally said NO.
    Did Walker say no to the out-of-state Koch money? Thank you for pointing out that Walker's efforts were nothing more than a partisan ploy to cripple the Democrats.

    Quote Originally Posted by ttwtt78640 View Post
    Allowing union membership to be an OPTION is not taking away any gov't employee's right to join (or remain in) the union. It is, however taking away the right of the UNION to demand those dues regardless of whether the gov't employee feels that they are being used productively.
    Hmmm... the union DEMANDS something that the worker agreed to pay as a condition of membership, which nets him/her better pay and benefits than non-union jobs. Odd how that happens. If the worker doesn't like paying those dues, all they have to do is quit and get a non-union job. Odd how that rarely happens.

    Using your logic, should not we, as citizens, be allowed to withhold paying our taxes if we feel that they are not being used productively?

    Quote Originally Posted by ttwtt78640 View Post
    Too allow a minority (gov't workers) to dictate labor policy to the majority (the taxpayer/voters) is insane.
    Actually your premise is insane.

    Quote Originally Posted by ttwtt78640 View Post
    If the gov't has the "right" to alter SS retirement ages AFTER that citizen has been required to pay SS taxation (but has not yet attained the benefit age), we should certainly be able to alter a "labor contract" that assigns retirement benfits for ANY gov't worker that has not yet retired.
    SS is not a contract. You should read up on it sometime.

    Quote Originally Posted by ttwtt78640 View Post
    It is time to stop the madness of treating ONLY gov't employees, not the citizens that must support them trough taxation, as "super citizens" with special union contract rights that are not applicable to ALL citizens.
    What have you been reading / listening to?

    Quote Originally Posted by ttwtt78640 View Post
    After all of the screaming in WI about how "unfair" the union teachers were treated one would expect a mass exodus of these highly qualified and educated folks [...]
    You would? Why? Leave family/friends, sell a house in this market, possibly lose vested pension benefits, definitely lose health insurance benefits... why would you expect that?
    Last edited by Karl; 06-09-12 at 12:40 PM. Reason: formatting

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