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Thread: Wisconsin Gov. Scott Walker survives recall effort, NBC News projects

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    Re: Wisconsin Gov. Scott Walker survives recall effort, NBC News projects

    Quote Originally Posted by Eighty Deuce View Post
    Swing ... and a miss !!

    Private sector unions must still compete in the marketplace. If they are too onerous, too much a parasite, they kill the host. And they perish with it. See Eastern Airlines for just one example.

    Public sector unions have no such self-correcting mechanism. They can suck the host forever.

    They are all volunteers too. If they don't like it, they can get another job. Taxpayers, on the other hand, are not volunteers.
    Do you want your police competing in the market place? Because they serve the public welfare, they are less deserving of a voice? And voters have no ability to correct or vote for people who would be wiser in negotiations? I don;t buy that.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

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    Re: Wisconsin Gov. Scott Walker survives recall effort, NBC News projects

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    Do you want your police competing in the market place? Because they serve the public welfare, they are less deserving of a voice? And voters have no ability to correct or vote for people who would be wiser in negotiations? I don;t buy that.
    Strike two.

    Read again. I pointed out the difference between public and private sector. I did not make an argument for privatized competing police companies.

    Try a little reading comprehension this time.

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    Re: Wisconsin Gov. Scott Walker survives recall effort, NBC News projects

    Quote Originally Posted by Eighty Deuce View Post
    Strike two.

    Read again. I pointed out the difference between public and private sector. I did not make an argument for privatized competing police companies.

    Try a little reading comprehension this time.
    NO, you pointed out the difference and suggested this difference made them OK, but that public servants have no right to such benefits or to negotiate as a group. You clearly are promoting denying them a collective voice, making them in effect second class citizens.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

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    Re: Wisconsin Gov. Scott Walker survives recall effort, NBC News projects

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    So can everyone else. They can vote for who negotiates. There is simply not the advantage some think there is, and too many are focusing on the unions and not those who represent the other side.
    A CEO can send whoever they want to the negotiating table. The private unions cannot tell the CEO who to send...by vote or not. Also public sector unions can "buy" the person they attempt to put into office via contributions. Which makes for more manageable negotiations.
    I have an answer for everything...you may not like the answer or it may not satisfy your curiosity..but it will still be an answer. ~ Kal'Stang

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    Re: Wisconsin Gov. Scott Walker survives recall effort, NBC News projects

    Quote Originally Posted by Kal'Stang View Post
    A CEO can send whoever they want to the negotiating table. The private unions cannot tell the CEO who to send...by vote or not. Also public sector unions can "buy" the person they attempt to put into office via contributions. Which makes for more manageable negotiations.
    Actually, the governor can send others as well. And the people, like the stockholders choose the CEO, can pick the governor. And business can buy politicians. And CEOs can be bought as well. In fact, CEOs have made poor decisions, bought policiticans, got bailouts, and received huge bonuses. And still, their workers have a voice. I see no logical reason to make those who do so much for us, some risking their lives, to be neutered and denied baisc negotiation rights because a few state governors negotiated poorly.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

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    Re: Wisconsin Gov. Scott Walker survives recall effort, NBC News projects

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    Do you want your police competing in the market place? Because they serve the public welfare, they are less deserving of a voice? And voters have no ability to correct or vote for people who would be wiser in negotiations? I don;t buy that.
    I think you missed his point. His point being that because public unions are tied to the government and the tax payer there is no checks against them. They cannot fall due to demanding too much. Private sector unions can. Because of this there must be another way to keep them in check.
    I have an answer for everything...you may not like the answer or it may not satisfy your curiosity..but it will still be an answer. ~ Kal'Stang

    My mind and my heart are saying I'm in my twenties. My body is pointing at my mind and heart and laughing its ass off. ~ Kal'Stang

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    Re: Wisconsin Gov. Scott Walker survives recall effort, NBC News projects

    Quote Originally Posted by Kal'Stang View Post
    I think you missed his point. His point being that because public unions are tied to the government and the tax payer there is no checks against them. They cannot fall due to demanding too much. Private sector unions can. Because of this there must be another way to keep them in check.
    I didn't miss that. I didn't buy it. Of course there are checks against them. Govenors are elected and removed and replaced through the vote. No one has a gun to their head to agree to anything. And when budgets fail, these employees lose jobs and have other contratints applied. There are checks.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

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    Re: Wisconsin Gov. Scott Walker survives recall effort, NBC News projects

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    Actually, the governor can send others as well. And the people, like the stockholders choose the CEO, can pick the governor. And business can buy politicians. And CEOs can be bought as well. In fact, CEOs have made poor decisions, bought policiticans, got bailouts, and received huge bonuses. And still, their workers have a voice. I see no logical reason to make those who do so much for us, some risking their lives, to be neutered and denied baisc negotiation rights because a few state governors negotiated poorly.
    The keyword there is "can". Doesn't mean that he has to. And even if the governor does there is nothing to stop that governor from telling the person he sends to negotiate a certain way.

    How many stockholders do you know that would want their CEO to negotiate their buisness into the ground? Yes CEO's make bad decisions in which could make the company fall. Yes they got bailouts. I was against them then and I'm against the bailouts now. But two wrongs do not make a right.
    I have an answer for everything...you may not like the answer or it may not satisfy your curiosity..but it will still be an answer. ~ Kal'Stang

    My mind and my heart are saying I'm in my twenties. My body is pointing at my mind and heart and laughing its ass off. ~ Kal'Stang

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    Re: Wisconsin Gov. Scott Walker survives recall effort, NBC News projects

    Quote Originally Posted by lpast View Post
    what you call sweetheart retirement plans is something the PRIVATE sector pigs at the trough should be giving to their workers...instead they POCKET it all...thats why theyve gotten fabulously richer when the workers have lost lots of ground...
    It's not economically viable. Sadly pensions cost far more than it costs to incentive a handful of business leaders to drive a business forward. Same reasons why pensions largely went away in the private industry, it was just too costly.

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    Re: Wisconsin Gov. Scott Walker survives recall effort, NBC News projects

    Quote Originally Posted by Kal'Stang View Post
    The keyword there is "can". Doesn't mean that he has to. And even if the governor does there is nothing to stop that governor from telling the person he sends to negotiate a certain way.

    How many stockholders do you know that would want their CEO to negotiate their buisness into the ground? Yes CEO's make bad decisions in which could make the company fall. Yes they got bailouts. I was against them then and I'm against the bailouts now. But two wrongs do not make a right.
    It is the same with the CEO and the market palce. It is can and not has to. And look at the bailouts. Stockholders have done just that. Both require more form the stakeholders and both get crap when the stackeholders don;t do their job. There is functionally no difference.

    As for two wrongs, it was me who made a distinction between the two. It is me who suggests they are essentially and functionally the same. What both need are better negotiators and not to be made illegal.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

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