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Thread: Wisconsin Gov. Scott Walker survives recall effort, NBC News projects

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    Re: Wisconsin Gov. Scott Walker survives recall effort, NBC News projects

    Quote Originally Posted by poweRob View Post
    I just try to defend facts. You however... are NOW deploying a new partisan hackery tactic of giving the turnaround and positive stat credits to the governors now while at the very same time, nonstop blaming Obama for all the negatives in the very same years. All without stating much less proving what policy did what. You got all your bases covered in that partisan bubble you live in.
    You accuse everyone on the right of "partisanship", but you are the one who tried comparing economic issues to a terrorist attack on 9/11. Just a few posts back.

    It always intrigues me when liberals compare apples to oranges, then try to pass it off as relevant. Like how they compare federal income tax rates to capital gains tax rates. Because that's what they do when they make comments like, "warren buffet pays less taxes than his secretary". Or when they compare economic trends to the country being attacked by terrorists. lol....just leaves me shaking my head in disbelief.

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    Re: Wisconsin Gov. Scott Walker survives recall effort, NBC News projects

    Quote Originally Posted by poweRob View Post
    If I recall correctly, Perot did not poll at 15% before the debates and that 15% threshold to make it into the debates was put into place after Perot... precisely because of Perot. He breached 15% after the debates because of the debates if I'm not mistaken. CPD moves the goal posts.
    I'll double check, but I'm pretty sure Perot was over 20% at some point PRIOR to the debates (and prior to originally dropping out). Even if they did institute the 15% rule after him, which I'm not sure on that but is possible, he'd still have met that requirement.

    Ah, here we go...

    Gallup Poll. From April to Mid June, Perot managed to poll at 24% or higher, topping out at 39% (actually leading Clinton and Bush). Mind you this was before any "debates" occured and he managed those numbers. While his numbers prior to the debate...and note, post him dropping out of the race...had dropped, starting at 8% when he came back in and hovering in the low 10's prior to the debate (The Gallup picture doesn't show specific dates). It did rise some, but even after getting on the debates Perot never managed to get back to the numbers he originally was showing. But its unquestionable that during the year of the Presidential election Perot managed to get above 15% in a national opinion poll. Not only did he get above it, he managed to more than double that amount.

    Gallop was the only national poll I could easily find information on for back then.

    Conversely...

    Johnson has managed 7% support in a Public Policy Polling national poll recently. Beyond that he's not been listed, but "other" has managed 1% in a CNN naitonal poll, 1% in an ABC/WaPo national poll, and 3% in a Fox News national poll. He doesn't seem to blip on the gallop radar on first look.

    Perot, prior to debates, managed to make a compelling enough appeal to the American people to garner significant and substantial public support to the point where he actually lead in a national poll during the election year. He gave compelling and significant reason why he should be part of the debates...not because he needed them to get support but because he HAD support and thus should be in them. Johnson can't even crack 10% support at this point in one poll let alone potentially consistently over a few.

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    Re: Wisconsin Gov. Scott Walker survives recall effort, NBC News projects

    Quote Originally Posted by AdamT View Post
    I don't think Johnson has a chance to win, but he was on Stewart the other night and he claimed that he's polling at 8% and rising, so it's not inconceivable that he could sneak into a debate or two.
    Gonna pull out Politfact here, who decided to look into the claim Link

    He didn't actually reach 8%, he reached 7% in a PPP poll. That was back in March. The one in April had him slip from 7% to 6%, so a downward trend. There hasn't been another PPP poll out since. The other polls don't have him listed but list an other. Other tends to get 3% or less in those polls.

    Mind you, at this point in time, Perot was polling in the mid to high 20's and into the 30's.

    It should be absolutely as inconcievable that Johnson sneaks into a debate as it is that any other random third party candidate with little to no recognition or support on a national scale should be able to get into it.

    Now mind you, I actually like a lot of what Johnson says and I may very well be voting for him myself. But I'm also not keen to let my political view point completely skew me from being able to reasonably look at reality and read obvious trends nor make outlandish procolomations that are just a shade bit more believable than saying I'll crap gold tonight. I'm all for a 3rd party getting into debates and doing well. I'd love to see it. But they need to be able to raise a reasonable level of excitement, support, and awareness on their own to show a legitimate argument that it's worth while for them to be accepted into a debate but for other 3rd party candidates shouldn't be. While Libertarians may be a bigger name right now than most other third parties...in terms of electoins and polling support, there's not a huge difference.

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    Re: Wisconsin Gov. Scott Walker survives recall effort, NBC News projects

    Quote Originally Posted by Zyphlin View Post
    Gonna pull out Politfact here, who decided to look into the claim Link

    He didn't actually reach 8%, he reached 7% in a PPP poll. That was back in March. The one in April had him slip from 7% to 6%, so a downward trend. There hasn't been another PPP poll out since. The other polls don't have him listed but list an other. Other tends to get 3% or less in those polls.

    Mind you, at this point in time, Perot was polling in the mid to high 20's and into the 30's.

    It should be absolutely as inconcievable that Johnson sneaks into a debate as it is that any other random third party candidate with little to no recognition or support on a national scale should be able to get into it.

    Now mind you, I actually like a lot of what Johnson says and I may very well be voting for him myself. But I'm also not keen to let my political view point completely skew me from being able to reasonably look at reality and read obvious trends nor make outlandish procolomations that are just a shade bit more believable than saying I'll crap gold tonight. I'm all for a 3rd party getting into debates and doing well. I'd love to see it. But they need to be able to raise a reasonable level of excitement, support, and awareness on their own to show a legitimate argument that it's worth while for them to be accepted into a debate but for other 3rd party candidates shouldn't be. While Libertarians may be a bigger name right now than most other third parties...in terms of electoins and polling support, there's not a huge difference.
    I agree it's quite unlikely. Just saying ... not inconceivable. I say that because you never know if or when the media might take some interest and give him at least a tiny bit of exposure. I think he will also get the support of many Paul backers. And then there's the fact that people are generally not thrilled with either candidate or either party. If I had to guess I'd put his chances of making it into a debate at about 5%.
    "The necessaries of life occasion the great expense of the poor. They find it difficult to get food, and the greater part of their little revenue is spent in getting it. The luxuries and vanities of life occasion the principal expense of the rich, and a magnificent house embellishes and sets off to the best advantage all the other luxuries and vanities which they possess. ... It is not very unreasonable that the rich should contribute to the public expense, not only in proportion to their revenue, but something more than in that proportion."

    -- Adam Smith

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    Re: Wisconsin Gov. Scott Walker survives recall effort, NBC News projects

    Quote Originally Posted by poweRob View Post
    I just try to defend facts. You however... are NOW deploying a new partisan hackery tactic of giving the turnaround and positive stat credits to the governors now while at the very same time, nonstop blaming Obama for all the negatives in the very same years. All without stating much less proving what policy did what. You got all your bases covered in that partisan bubble you live in.
    Let me remind you in the real world, not the liberal world, results matter. Why is it with a liberal that liking is more important generating results. We aren't selecting American Idol, although it is hard to tell with Obama and his supporters. Results matter so tell me what econonic results has Obama generated that I should be happy about? With you it always claims that I am partisan, results aren't partisan, they are what they are and that doesn't bode well for the guy you claim you aren't voting for

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    Re: Wisconsin Gov. Scott Walker survives recall effort, NBC News projects

    Quote Originally Posted by Conservative View Post
    Let me remind you in the real world, not the liberal world, results matter. Why is it with a liberal that liking is more important generating results. We aren't selecting American Idol, although it is hard to tell with Obama and his supporters. Results matter so tell me what econonic results has Obama generated that I should be happy about? With you it always claims that I am partisan, results aren't partisan, they are what they are and that doesn't bode well for the guy you claim you aren't voting for
    Well an increase in private sector employment over public sector employment........

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    Re: Wisconsin Gov. Scott Walker survives recall effort, NBC News projects

    Quote Originally Posted by winston53660 View Post
    Well an increase in private sector employment over public sector employment........
    At a cost of 5.2 trillion added to the debt? Sorry, try again. there aren't enough jobs created to pay for that spending. 23 million unemployed/under employed Americans haven't seen that private sector gain and exactly what has Obama done to create private sector jobs? Federal jobs are up, and that is what Obama has control over. Maybe a few more fund raisers while Rome is burning?

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    Re: Wisconsin Gov. Scott Walker survives recall effort, NBC News projects

    Quote Originally Posted by Conservative View Post
    At a cost of 5.2 trillion added to the debt? Sorry, try again. there aren't enough jobs created to pay for that spending. 23 million unemployed/under employed Americans haven't seen that private sector gain and exactly what has Obama done to create private sector jobs? Federal jobs are up, and that is what Obama has control over. Maybe a few more fund raisers while Rome is burning?
    So you don't support the private sector

    federal-government-employment.jpg

    Under Reagan, federal employment increased by 200,000.
    Under Obama, federal employment increased by 38,000 (thru 3/12).
    Under both, federal employment held the same % relative to population.
    The up-tick in 2010 was mostly census workers, but some administration of the Obama's jobs stimulus.

    Thanxs mullah
    http://www.debatepolitics.com/genera...post1060572938

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    Re: Wisconsin Gov. Scott Walker survives recall effort, NBC News projects

    Quote Originally Posted by winston53660 View Post
    So you don't support the private sector

    federal-government-employment.jpg

    Under Reagan, federal employment increased by 200,000.
    Under Obama, federal employment increased by 38,000 (thru 3/12).
    Under both, federal employment held the same % relative to population.
    The up-tick in 2010 was mostly census workers, but some administration of the Obama's jobs stimulus.

    Thanxs mullah
    http://www.debatepolitics.com/genera...post1060572938
    What economic policy did Obama implement to create private sector jobs? This is the worst recovery on record and 5.2 trillion added to the debt to generate these numbers is shameful

    Why don't you have Obama run against the Reagan record and see how that works out because he certainly cannot run on his own. Reagan economy created over 16 million jobs and that is a net increase. Obama needs to do a more fund raisers and a few more TV shows so the Obama robots see him and buy the rhetoric.

    I know how bad you want to compare Obama to Bush, Obama to Reagan, but Obama cannot even compete against Carter so he needs to take on someone more his own size. Obama is making Carter look good though

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    Re: Wisconsin Gov. Scott Walker survives recall effort, NBC News projects

    Quote Originally Posted by winston53660 View Post
    So you don't support the private sector

    federal-government-employment.jpg

    Under Reagan, federal employment increased by 200,000.
    Under Obama, federal employment increased by 38,000 (thru 3/12).
    Under both, federal employment held the same % relative to population.
    The up-tick in 2010 was mostly census workers, but some administration of the Obama's jobs stimulus.

    Thanxs mullah
    http://www.debatepolitics.com/genera...post1060572938
    Interesting numbers you posted, Too bad they don't agree with reality

    Employees: The number of federal employees grew by 123,000, or 6.2%, under President Obama, according to the White House's Office of Management and Budget.

    The federal government has been one of the few areas that's grown during the economic downturn. The private sector remains down 1.1 million jobs from the start of 2009, while state and local governments have shed 635,000 positions.
    You should probably tell the OMB their numbers are wrong

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