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Thread: Wisconsin Gov. Scott Walker survives recall effort, NBC News projects

  1. #381
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    Re: Wisconsin Gov. Scott Walker survives recall effort, NBC News projects

    Quote Originally Posted by ThePlayDrive View Post
    Money certainly means a lot, but here's the thing. In big elections like this, certain people are going to deny anything that doesn't make it seem like the voters wholly agree with their side. Some on the left will dismiss any notion that Wisconsin voters legitimately agree with Scott Walker. Some on the right will dismiss any notion that Wisconsin voters were swayed more by one-sided ads with great funds behind them than by legitimate agreement with Walker.

    I think money was a huge factor in this as it is in every election. I don't know how someone could deny that. However, I don't know that Wisconsin voters would have voted differently had the election just been based on examining the opposing arguments without any money being involved. They might have, might not have, but regardless, this is what many of them chose. I think it's a horrible decision and I'm happy I don't live there, but it wasn't my decision to make.
    We don't know how Centrists, moderates and Independents for voted. There are people - whom I call "Dependents" - who will vote the party no matter what. How those people shook out in votes we don't know. The campaign money was spent to convince Independents, Centrists and Moderates and it was spent to reinforce the message to those who had already determined how they would vote.

    Most of the money came from out of state. Money most certainly correlates to votes. More money, more votes.

    I too am glad I don't have to live in Wisconsin.










    "When Faith preaches Hate, Blessed are the Doubters." - Amin Maalouf

    When trouble arises and things look bad, there is always one individual who perceives a solution and is willing to take command. Very often, that person is crazy. ~Dave Barry



  2. #382
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    Re: Wisconsin Gov. Scott Walker survives recall effort, NBC News projects

    Quote Originally Posted by Risky Thicket View Post
    So you are saying there is no correlation between campaign spending and votes received?
    Sometimes not. Keep in mind that the incumbent (e.g. Obama) may travel, speak and campaign using little (or no) outside funding and that nearly everything he says is "news", getting plenty of free media exposure, not often granted to the 'opposition' candidate, that must buy ads to get their message out. Granted, that with two unknowns running against each other, the one with more funding is likely to gain an advantage, but never forget, that in most races, it is the outsider that must spend much more to beat the incumbent.
    “The reasonable man adapts himself to the world: the unreasonable one persists to adapt the world to himself.
    Therefore all progress depends on the unreasonable man.” ― George Bernard Shaw, Man and Superman

  3. #383
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    Re: Wisconsin Gov. Scott Walker survives recall effort, NBC News projects

    Quote Originally Posted by Risky Thicket View Post
    X and Conservative, are you both saying that money doesn't factor into elections?
    Money FACTORS into elections. Money doesn't determine whether or not individuals have their right to vote, and thus determine their governor, taken away.

  4. #384
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    Re: Wisconsin Gov. Scott Walker survives recall effort, NBC News projects

    Quote Originally Posted by Erod View Post
    So Democrats and unions are complaining about money spent in a special election that Democrats and unions created?

    Perhaps they could have afforded a plane ticket to have Obama stop by once.
    Obama didn't want any part of this cluster****. He had nothing to gain and everything to lose.

    Look at it from his perspective. He goes and they win - great, but it's a state that hasn't voted for a Republican for President in almost 30 years (Reagan in '84 was the last time. Even Dukakis won in Wisconsin). He goes and they lose - now he's personally connected to a failure that wasn't his. Dude's got enough of his own failure to deal with without taking on someone else's.


    Quote Originally Posted by Jetboogieman View Post
    This issue has been plowed more times than Paris Hilton.
    Quote Originally Posted by Oborosen View Post
    Too bad we have to observe human rights.

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    Re: Wisconsin Gov. Scott Walker survives recall effort, NBC News projects

    Quote Originally Posted by Risky Thicket View Post
    Bingo! And because of Citizens United, much loved by conservatives, we have no idea where most of Walker's big money came from.
    bottom line is they can't win on a level playing field and they know it. Which is why they support Citizens United, voter role purges, Tom Delay styled redistricting and on and on and on.

    I've seen crappy Dem styled redistricting for the same reasons but the collection of these facts I listed above shows that they know that their message fails when delivered on a level playing field.
    Quote Originally Posted by Moderate Right View Post
    The sad fact is that having a pedophile win is better than having a Democrat in office. I'm all for a solution where a Republican gets in that isn't Moore.

  6. #386
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    Re: Wisconsin Gov. Scott Walker survives recall effort, NBC News projects

    Quote Originally Posted by Erod View Post
    So Democrats and unions are complaining about money spent in a special election that Democrats and unions created?

    Perhaps they could have afforded a plane ticket to have Obama stop by once.
    Why did you even bother to post?










    "When Faith preaches Hate, Blessed are the Doubters." - Amin Maalouf

    When trouble arises and things look bad, there is always one individual who perceives a solution and is willing to take command. Very often, that person is crazy. ~Dave Barry



  7. #387
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    Re: Wisconsin Gov. Scott Walker survives recall effort, NBC News projects

    Quote Originally Posted by rocket88 View Post
    Obama didn't want any part of this cluster****. He had nothing to gain and everything to lose.

    Look at it from his perspective. He goes and they win - great, but it's a state that hasn't voted for a Republican for President in almost 30 years (Reagan in '84 was the last time. Even Dukakis won in Wisconsin). He goes and they lose - now he's personally connected to a failure that wasn't his. Dude's got enough of his own failure to deal with without taking on someone else's.
    People are going to vote based upon results generated. Walker has generated positive results.

  8. #388
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    Re: Wisconsin Gov. Scott Walker survives recall effort, NBC News projects

    Quote Originally Posted by poweRob View Post
    Nah... money doesn't matter in elections:


    Scott Walker Spent 88% of the Money to Get 53% of the Vote

    Walker's Republican campaign outspent Barrett's Democratic campaign by $30.5 million to $4 million -- that's a 7.5 to 1 advantage. Another way of saying this is that of the $34.5 million spent on their campaigns, Walker spend 88% of the money.

    Walker beat Barrett by 1,316,989 votes to 1,145,190 votes -- 53% to 46% (with 1% going to an independent candidate).

    Here's another way of saying that: Walker spent $23 for each vote he received, while Barrett spent only $3.47 per vote.


    Now to hear garbage spewed about how this election is a bellweather for November's elections. lol
    The money issue in this case is an excuse, a sorry one at that. Two reasons. One, the results are nearly identical to the 2010 election where the money factor wasn't nearly as lopsided. Maybe 2-1 in Walker's favor with direct contribution and independent spending being about equal. Two, the results also mirror where the polls have been for over a year, well before all this outide money (both sides received large amounts by the way) was even spent. While the money is a factor, the facts on the ground indicate it wasn't the most contributing, not even close.

    In my opinion, the Walker victory comes from several factors.

    1. The GOP's grassroots ground game put the Dems to shame. Look at the primary, Walker's (uncontested) had more votes than the entire Democratic field combined. That's a HUGE message in itself and rather surprising since the them was his opposition was much more enthusiastic from all the "end of the world" policies Walker had put forth.

    And this is the one that I think spells trouble for Obama. The GOP ground game in Wisconsin is a well oiled machine right now with the Democrats hitting a brick wall full force. This will have impact in the coming months as some, if not quite a few, will be quite discouraged. This recall may end up being just one high stakes gigantic political miscalculation.

    2. The recall itself. Exits polls indicated that some, though disagree with Walker's policies, diagree more with recalling him for them.

    3. Whether you like it or not, his reforms are bearing fruit. No teachers had to be layed off, municipal healthcare costs are down, budgets are moving to the black, appears to be no major disruption in services. It appears that many union members in the Badger state don't necessarily feel the unions are worth dues. Look at the numbers of how many have voluntarily dropped off the union rolls.

  9. #389
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    Re: Wisconsin Gov. Scott Walker survives recall effort, NBC News projects

    Quote Originally Posted by Risky Thicket View Post
    Don't pee on my leg and tell me it's raining, James.
    The only one doing that is you.You seem to be under the impression that ads have voter registration cards and can sprout legs and run to the polls and vote or that they point a gun at people and force them to vote a particular way.
    If political ads aren't effective, why is sooooooo much money spent on advertising and campaigning?
    How much money that is spent on ads is irrelevant to the fact it is only the citizens of Wisconsin who voted.The ads didn't vote, the out of state donors didn't vote.The only thing the ads do is encourage voters to get out and vote for a particular candidate.
    Last edited by jamesrage; 06-06-12 at 12:05 PM.
    "A nation can survive its fools, and even the ambitious. But it cannot survive treason from within. An enemy at the gates is less formidable, for he is known and carries his banner openly. But the traitor moves amongst those within the gate freely, his sly whispers rustling through all the alleys, heard in the very halls of government itself. For the traitor appears not a traitor; he speaks in accents familiar to his victims, and he wears their face and their arguments, he appeals to the baseness that lies deep in the hearts of all men. He rots the soul of a nation, he works secretly and unknown in the night to undermine the pillars of the city, he infects the body politic so that it can no longer resist. A murder is less to fear"

    Cicero Marcus Tullius

  10. #390
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    Re: Wisconsin Gov. Scott Walker survives recall effort, NBC News projects

    Quote Originally Posted by poweRob View Post
    link?


    ......
    I read it on Jsonline not too long ago. I used up my free 15 articles for the month, so wouldn't be able to find it again. Basically, Walker far outraised Barrett. However, when taking outside groups into account, the spending was roughly equaly.

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