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Thread: Wisconsin Gov. Scott Walker survives recall effort, NBC News projects

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    Re: Wisconsin Gov. Scott Walker survives recall effort, NBC News projects

    Quote Originally Posted by Ockham View Post
    The problem is what the unions do with the power they have... apparently many union members don't see the advantages of having a union any longer. [...]
    Since right wing laws say that you can get union benefits and union wages without paying union dues, of course there is no advantage of having a union any longer. You can get it for free.

    Until all the unions are gone, of course, then the capitalists will lick their chops and drop the hammer on the backs of the workers; at which point there will be no going back, because the right wing will have, by then, legislated unions powerless (as Scott Walker has effectively done in Wisconsin).

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    Quote Originally Posted by Karl View Post
    ...legislated unions powerless (as Scott Walker has effectively done in Wisconsin).
    And if that is what the voters voted for, twice in this instance, then that was the right thing to do, no?

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    Re: Wisconsin Gov. Scott Walker survives recall effort, NBC News projects

    Quote Originally Posted by AdamT View Post
    If you work for Acme Corp. and they donate money to Obama -- money that would otherwise go to salary and benefits, then you would be in exactly the same situation.
    However, that money belongs to Acme Corp. and doesn't come out of Prof's paycheck. Therein lies the difference.
    Quote Originally Posted by Top Cat View Post
    At least Bill saved his transgressions for grown women. Not suggesting what he did was OK. But he didn't chase 14 year olds.

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    Re: Wisconsin Gov. Scott Walker survives recall effort, NBC News projects

    Quote Originally Posted by mac View Post
    Oh, what direction is that? Down your nose?
    Hardly. But do feel free to advance the argument with something constructive.


    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

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    Re: Wisconsin Gov. Scott Walker survives recall effort, NBC News projects

    Quote Originally Posted by Ockham View Post
    The problem is what the unions do with the power they have... apparently many union members don't see the advantages of having a union any longer. The tactics they use may have worked in the 1950's and 1960's in their heyday, not so much any more. Certain areas do need unions... most do not. Business has by and large found ways to work with their employees without unions. Those sectors that have not, will still need unions until those sectors like the rest of the U.S., see their employees not as chattel but as their lifeline to growing and expanding their business.
    I believe that unions have outlived their usefulness, entirely. What with the ever sacred government regulations that protect workers, unions are nothing more than another special interest group with too much power and too much money.
    Quote Originally Posted by Top Cat View Post
    At least Bill saved his transgressions for grown women. Not suggesting what he did was OK. But he didn't chase 14 year olds.

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    Re: Wisconsin Gov. Scott Walker survives recall effort, NBC News projects

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    However, that money belongs to Acme Corp. and doesn't come out of Prof's paycheck. Therein lies the difference.
    It comes out of his paycheck just as surely as union dues — just not as directly.
    "The necessaries of life occasion the great expense of the poor. They find it difficult to get food, and the greater part of their little revenue is spent in getting it. The luxuries and vanities of life occasion the principal expense of the rich, and a magnificent house embellishes and sets off to the best advantage all the other luxuries and vanities which they possess. ... It is not very unreasonable that the rich should contribute to the public expense, not only in proportion to their revenue, but something more than in that proportion."

    -- Adam Smith

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    Re: Wisconsin Gov. Scott Walker survives recall effort, NBC News projects

    Quote Originally Posted by Prof. Peabody View Post
    My dues should be for collective bargaining isn't that what Unions are for? I am not in favor of Obama, yet my money that I HAVE to pay will be used to help get him elected against my will? Employers can donate to who ever they want, they aren't taking money directly from my paycheck to do so. I'm surprised you can't see the difference. I'm sure you've internalized some pro-labor rationale for this.
    Just like with management, laws passed matter. If it is fair and fine for management, why would it not be fair and fine for labor?

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

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    Quote Originally Posted by AdamT View Post
    It comes out of his paycheck just as surely as union dues just not as directly.
    No, it doesn't come out of his paycheck at all, it comes from the company's money. But even if you think it does, Peabody did clarify "directly out of my paycheck".
    Last edited by The Man; 06-12-12 at 07:52 PM.

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    Re: Wisconsin Gov. Scott Walker survives recall effort, NBC News projects

    Quote Originally Posted by AdamT View Post
    It comes out of his paycheck just as surely as union dues — just not as directly.
    No it doesn't. The two are no where close to being the same. Don't even try it, Boo. Union dues are nothing more than a tax. If unions were so awesome, they would do all their wonderful work for free.
    Quote Originally Posted by Top Cat View Post
    At least Bill saved his transgressions for grown women. Not suggesting what he did was OK. But he didn't chase 14 year olds.

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    Re: Wisconsin Gov. Scott Walker survives recall effort, NBC News projects

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    No it doesn't. The two are no where close to being the same. Don't even try it, Boo. Union dues are nothing more than a tax. If unions were so awesome, they would do all their wonderful work for free.
    Sorry, Bubba, but the fact is that campaign contributions come off the company's bottom line, and the bottom line is what determines how much the company can pay its employees.
    "The necessaries of life occasion the great expense of the poor. They find it difficult to get food, and the greater part of their little revenue is spent in getting it. The luxuries and vanities of life occasion the principal expense of the rich, and a magnificent house embellishes and sets off to the best advantage all the other luxuries and vanities which they possess. ... It is not very unreasonable that the rich should contribute to the public expense, not only in proportion to their revenue, but something more than in that proportion."

    -- Adam Smith

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