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Thread: Wisconsin Gov. Scott Walker survives recall effort, NBC News projects

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    Re: Wisconsin Gov. Scott Walker survives recall effort, NBC News projects

    Clearly, Walker fought the good fight and the repercussions will go well beyond the Badger state. He is to be given credit - render unto Caesar the things which are Caesar's.

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    Re: Wisconsin Gov. Scott Walker survives recall effort, NBC News projects

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    You're right. Some would love to benefit from the union but not pay for it. Like I've said, we don;t have a "union" here. But we do have a bargaining group. When we bargan, everyone gets what we bargan for. But only 62% pay for it. It's a good deal to get something for free.
    And does everyone ask for what you bargain for? Or would they prefer to bargain on their own? I know I do. I would imagine that I'm not the only one.

    See what you just said here is a copout. "oh they get they the benefits we bargain for too, therefore they should pay!". Sorry but I know lots of people that are not a part of a union and do not get ANY of the benefits that union members do. I live in a right to work state. Lots of unions in this state still...yet the only ones that get the benefits from the unions bargaining are union members. Everyone else bargains for their own benefits. They may or may not get them. Just depends on how hard they work for it.

    Also how would the "propaganda" work against those that are in a union? They know the benefits they recieve from it. Yet many people that are/were in a union are dropping out of them...why?
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    Re: Wisconsin Gov. Scott Walker survives recall effort, NBC News projects

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    You're right. Some would love to benefit from the union but not pay for it. Like I've said, we don;t have a "union" here. But we do have a bargaining group. When we bargan, everyone gets what we bargan for. But only 62% pay for it. It's a good deal to get something for free.
    Kinda like some would love to benefit from education, but not pay for it.
    ”People willing to trade their freedom for temporary security deserve neither and will lose both.” --- Ben Franklin

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    Sterotypes are mostly based on truths.

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    Re: Wisconsin Gov. Scott Walker survives recall effort, NBC News projects

    Quote Originally Posted by Dickieboy View Post
    It is incredibly easy to parrot data published on numerous ‘left leaning’ websites.
    Ad hominem.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dickieboy View Post
    [...] the lack of skilled manufacturing jobs, which left in large part because of the actions of unions (see exhibit in post #992)
    Facts not in evidence (your cite does not support your claim; it merely shows a decline in manufacturing jobs -- not the reason for the decline).

    Quote Originally Posted by Dickieboy View Post
    and our public going to college to study psychology and political science while the rest of the world studies sciences and math.
    Facts not in evidence, relationship to your argument not in evidence.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dickieboy View Post
    And at the same time that their share of aggregate income was declining, for whatever reason, their income has increased. Is this also due to the decrease in union participation? File:United States Income Distribution 1947-2007.svg - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
    Probably due to inflation. However, if you want to argue that eliminating unions increases wages, be my guest
    Last edited by Karl; 06-12-12 at 12:50 PM.

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    Re: Wisconsin Gov. Scott Walker survives recall effort, NBC News projects

    Quote Originally Posted by Karl View Post
    Ad hominem.


    Facts not in evidence (your cite does not support your claim; it merely shows a decline in manufacturing jobs -- not the reason for the decline).


    Facts not in evidence, relationship to your argument not in evidence.


    Probably due to inflation. However, if you want to argue that eliminating unions increases wages, be my guest
    Thank you for your consistently insightful and valuable contribution to the debate (note the ad hominem). Please point out where I stated than any of what you refute as ‘facts not in evidence’ are/were facts. Then explain how ‘probably’ would infer anything different than ‘facts not in evidence’. As to the ‘eliminating unions increases wages’, this was not an assertion but rather another example of the correlation vs causation fallacy. Again, thank you for your contribution.

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    Re: Wisconsin Gov. Scott Walker survives recall effort, NBC News projects

    Quote Originally Posted by mac View Post
    Kinda like some would love to benefit from education, but not pay for it.
    Kind of. I see quite a few who don't want educatin paid for. But I'm likely looking ina different direction than you are.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

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    Re: Wisconsin Gov. Scott Walker survives recall effort, NBC News projects

    Quote Originally Posted by Prof. Peabody View Post
    WTF are you talking about? I was forced to pay for it. While I certainly don't mind giving my fair share for collective bargaining, I don't agree with their political donation strategy. Please tell me why I can't opt out of that?
    Yes, you want only employers to be able to donate. Keeping the advantage in their court. It's fair when they do it, but not when workers do it. I understand that completely. The thing is laws effect employees, and the money employers have pumpted in has hurt workers and unions. Unions can't really keep up. But, you would prefer the advantage be even larger. I'm sure you've internalized some pro-managment rationale for this?

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

  8. #1028
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    Re: Wisconsin Gov. Scott Walker survives recall effort, NBC News projects

    Quote Originally Posted by Kal'Stang View Post
    And does everyone ask for what you bargain for? Or would they prefer to bargain on their own? I know I do. I would imagine that I'm not the only one.

    See what you just said here is a copout. "oh they get they the benefits we bargain for too, therefore they should pay!". Sorry but I know lots of people that are not a part of a union and do not get ANY of the benefits that union members do. I live in a right to work state. Lots of unions in this state still...yet the only ones that get the benefits from the unions bargaining are union members. Everyone else bargains for their own benefits. They may or may not get them. Just depends on how hard they work for it.

    Also how would the "propaganda" work against those that are in a union? They know the benefits they recieve from it. Yet many people that are/were in a union are dropping out of them...why?
    No response to this Boo?
    I have an answer for everything...you may not like the answer or it may not satisfy your curiosity..but it will still be an answer. ~ Kal'Stang

    My mind and my heart are saying I'm in my twenties. My body is pointing at my mind and heart and laughing its ass off. ~ Kal'Stang

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    Re: Wisconsin Gov. Scott Walker survives recall effort, NBC News projects

    Quote Originally Posted by Kal'Stang View Post
    No response to this Boo?
    And does everyone ask for what you bargain for? Or would they prefer to bargain on their own? I know I do. I would imagine that I'm not the only one.
    Obviously you individually have far less bargaining power than everyone bargaining collectively.
    "The necessaries of life occasion the great expense of the poor. They find it difficult to get food, and the greater part of their little revenue is spent in getting it. The luxuries and vanities of life occasion the principal expense of the rich, and a magnificent house embellishes and sets off to the best advantage all the other luxuries and vanities which they possess. ... It is not very unreasonable that the rich should contribute to the public expense, not only in proportion to their revenue, but something more than in that proportion."

    -- Adam Smith

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    Re: Wisconsin Gov. Scott Walker survives recall effort, NBC News projects

    Quote Originally Posted by AdamT View Post
    Obviously you individually have far less bargaining power than everyone bargaining collectively.
    This is subjective. But even if what you say is true...so what? At least I am making it on my own via my own abilities and I am not dependent on someone else. I value independence far more than dependence.
    I have an answer for everything...you may not like the answer or it may not satisfy your curiosity..but it will still be an answer. ~ Kal'Stang

    My mind and my heart are saying I'm in my twenties. My body is pointing at my mind and heart and laughing its ass off. ~ Kal'Stang

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