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Thread: US Debt Could Double in 25 Years With Current Policies

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    Re: US Debt Could Double in 25 Years With Current Policies

    Quote Originally Posted by Kushinator View Post
    You did not answer my question. Until the massive deficit spending for WWII, the U.S. did not actually engage in Keynesian policies.
    I figured the information answered it for me.

    I guess not.


    'Definition of 'Keynesian Economics'
    An economic theory stating that active government intervention in the marketplace and monetary policy is the best method of ensuring economic growth and stability.'

    Read more: Keynesian Economics Definition | Investopedia


    So, you are seriously suggesting that the New Deal was not an example of 'active government intervention in the marketplace and monetary policy'?

    So a government increase in spending from 1930 until 1936 of roughly 150%, despite the fact that government revenues actually were lower in 1936 then in 1930...and you say that is not engaging in Keynesian policies?

    Okaaaaaaay.
    Last edited by DA60; 06-07-12 at 03:38 PM.

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    Re: US Debt Could Double in 25 Years With Current Policies

    Quote Originally Posted by DA60 View Post
    I figured the information answered it for me.

    I guess not.

    'Definition of 'Keynesian Economics'
    An economic theory stating that active government intervention in the marketplace and monetary policy is the best method of ensuring economic growth and stability.'

    Read more: Keynesian Economics Definition | Investopedia


    So, you are seriously suggesting that the New Deal was not an example of 'active government intervention in the marketplace and monetary policy'?

    Okaaaaaaay.
    Deficit spending up until WWII was minimal at best, and can be mostly attributed to a deteriorating tax base as aggregate income was nearly cut in half by 1933. There is not a cookie cutter definition of Keynesian macro policy. Yes, deficit spending is essential, but closer observations must be made in order to dissect how income dynamics impact the tax base. Simply pointing to the existence of deficits (in and of themselves) does not support your argument.
    It is not very unreasonable that the rich should contribute to the public expense, not only in proportion to their revenue, but something more than in that proportion.
    "Wealth of Nations," Book V, Chapter II, Part II, Article I, pg.911

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    Re: US Debt Could Double in 25 Years With Current Policies

    Quote Originally Posted by Kushinator View Post
    Nonsense. Nearly half of all banks in the U.S. failed before 1933, when FDR was sworn into office. One of his firsts initiatives, known as the Banking Act of 1933 actually put in place a regulatory framework that increased confidence in a (at that time) failing banking sector. The kool-aid might have tasted great on the way down, but it's awful on the way up.
    His actions with the banks when he first took office undermined confidence in them. However, some seem caught up in semantics. My argument is that FDR made things worse. Whether we would still call it the Great Depression had someone else been in charge, and pursued other policies, I do not know. But very good arguments can be had that FDR's policies took a bad situation, and made it worse, extending it for years beyond what should have been its normal course.

    There are arguments both ways. Here is one:

    How FDR Made the Depression Worse
    The Free Market: How FDR Made the Depression Worse

    And then we have the words of his own Treasury Secretary, testifying before Congress in 1939"

    “We have tried spending money. We are spending more than we have ever spent before and it does not work. And I have just one interest, and if I am wrong…somebody else can have my job. I want to see this country prosperous. I want to see people get a job. I want to see people get enough to eat. We have never made good on our promises…I say after eight years of this administration we have just as much unemployment as when we started…And an enormous debt to boot!”
    Henry Morganthau
    My argument is that it is a good argument

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    Re: US Debt Could Double in 25 Years With Current Policies

    Quote Originally Posted by Eighty Deuce View Post
    And then we have the words of his own Treasury Secretary, testifying before Congress in 1939"



    My argument is that it is a good argument
    That is a great point (imo) and very informative to me.

    I never knew a member of his administration said that about FDR's policies.

    VERY interesting.
    Last edited by DA60; 06-07-12 at 03:49 PM.

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    Re: US Debt Could Double in 25 Years With Current Policies

    Quote Originally Posted by Eighty Deuce View Post
    My argument is that it is a good argument
    No, you do not have a coherent argument, as it is riddled with misconceptions at every plausible turn.
    Last edited by Kushinator; 06-07-12 at 03:44 PM.
    It is not very unreasonable that the rich should contribute to the public expense, not only in proportion to their revenue, but something more than in that proportion.
    "Wealth of Nations," Book V, Chapter II, Part II, Article I, pg.911

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    Re: US Debt Could Double in 25 Years With Current Policies

    Quote Originally Posted by Kushinator View Post
    Deficit spending up until WWII was minimal at best, and can be mostly attributed to a deteriorating tax base as aggregate income was nearly cut in half by 1933. There is not a cookie cutter definition of Keynesian macro policy. Yes, deficit spending is essential, but closer observations must be made in order to dissect how income dynamics impact the tax base. Simply pointing to the existence of deficits (in and of themselves) does not support your argument.
    Deficits that from FY1932 until FY1940 averaged over 3.6% of total G.D.P. (or today would be a $566 billion dollar deficit) are 'minimal' to you?


    Once again, okaaaaaaay.
    Last edited by DA60; 06-07-12 at 04:08 PM.

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    Re: US Debt Could Double in 25 Years With Current Policies

    Quote Originally Posted by Kushinator View Post
    No, you do not have a coherent argument, as it is riddled with misconceptions at every plausible turn.
    Yeah. OK.

    Let me add for those not so silly. Regarding The Depression, and spending. The last two years of Hoover pursued excessive spending, and the expansion of Government, which are just as much of a cause in sustaining the initial Depression as what FDR continued.
    Last edited by Eighty Deuce; 06-07-12 at 03:50 PM.

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    Re: US Debt Could Double in 25 Years With Current Policies

    Quote Originally Posted by Eighty Deuce View Post
    Yeah. OK.

    Let me add for those not so silly. Regarding The Depression, and spending. The last two years of Hoover pursued excessive spending, and the expansion of Government, which are just as much of a cause in sustaining the initial Depression as what FDR continued.
    Yes - as I have stated before, the notion that Hoover was an Austrian Schooler is totally wrong.

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    Re: US Debt Could Double in 25 Years With Current Policies

    Quote Originally Posted by DA60 View Post
    I figured the information answered it for me.

    I guess not.


    'Definition of 'Keynesian Economics'
    An economic theory stating that active government intervention in the marketplace and monetary policy is the best method of ensuring economic growth and stability.'

    Read more: Keynesian Economics Definition | Investopedia


    So, you are seriously suggesting that the New Deal was not an example of 'active government intervention in the marketplace and monetary policy'?

    So a government increase in spending from 1930 until 1936 of roughly 150%, despite the fact that government revenues actually were lower in 1936 then in 1930...and you say that is not engaging in Keynesian policies?

    Okaaaaaaay.
    Many of FDR's relief programs weren't initiated until around 1935-1936. And in 1937, FDR had actually cut spending. And, there's also the fact that Keynes wrote letters to Roosevelt criticizing him for not doing enough spending.....

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    Re: US Debt Could Double in 25 Years With Current Policies

    Quote Originally Posted by DA60 View Post
    A near tripling of spending between FY1930 and FY1940 is minimal at best to you?

    Once again, okaaaaaaay.
    The level of increased spending was nowhere near the requisite to close the output gap. Typically those right of center tend to confuse the New Deal with Keynes. The General Theory was not publish until 1936, and the notion of running deficits in proportion of the output gap was not initiated until the U.S. enters WWII.

    This is simply a matter of fact.
    It is not very unreasonable that the rich should contribute to the public expense, not only in proportion to their revenue, but something more than in that proportion.
    "Wealth of Nations," Book V, Chapter II, Part II, Article I, pg.911

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