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Thread: US Debt Could Double in 25 Years With Current Policies

  1. #61
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    Re: US Debt Could Double in 25 Years With Current Policies

    Quote Originally Posted by Eighty Deuce View Post
    Hey. I'm not buying that rubbish about Obama. That debate has been had. Those statistics phoney as Hell. Passing off Obama spending on Bush is hilariously stupid.

    The Depression was a stock bubble burst. And a Recession. FDR made it a Depression.
    This is exactly right, but it sure wasn't taught that way in school, was it?

    We got out of the Depression by rebuilding Europe after WWII. That war was the largest transfer of money in world history. (Now, we seem determined to give it all to China.)
    Last edited by Erod; 06-07-12 at 01:57 PM.

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    Re: US Debt Could Double in 25 Years With Current Policies

    Quote Originally Posted by Erod View Post
    This is exactly right, but it sure wasn't taught that way in school, was it?
    It isn't taught that way because it isn't true.
    "The necessaries of life occasion the great expense of the poor. They find it difficult to get food, and the greater part of their little revenue is spent in getting it. The luxuries and vanities of life occasion the principal expense of the rich, and a magnificent house embellishes and sets off to the best advantage all the other luxuries and vanities which they possess. ... It is not very unreasonable that the rich should contribute to the public expense, not only in proportion to their revenue, but something more than in that proportion."

    -- Adam Smith

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    Re: US Debt Could Double in 25 Years With Current Policies

    Quote Originally Posted by Eighty Deuce View Post
    Hey. I'm not buying that rubbish about Obama. That debate has been had. Those statistics phoney as Hell. Passing off Obama spending on Bush is hilariously stupid.

    The Depression was a stock bubble burst. And a Recession. FDR made it a Depression.
    Nonsense. Nearly half of all banks in the U.S. failed before 1933, when FDR was sworn into office. One of his firsts initiatives, known as the Banking Act of 1933 actually put in place a regulatory framework that increased confidence in a (at that time) failing banking sector. The kool-aid might have tasted great on the way down, but it's awful on the way up.
    It is not very unreasonable that the rich should contribute to the public expense, not only in proportion to their revenue, but something more than in that proportion.
    "Wealth of Nations," Book V, Chapter II, Part II, Article I, pg.911

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    Re: US Debt Could Double in 25 Years With Current Policies

    Quote Originally Posted by Eighty Deuce View Post
    Hey. I'm not buying that rubbish about Obama. That debate has been had. Those statistics phoney as Hell. Passing off Obama spending on Bush is hilariously stupid.

    The Depression was a stock bubble burst. And a Recession. FDR made it a Depression.
    Although I am almost TOTALLY against the New Deal and Keynesian economics...I am afraid your statement is not true.

    By the time FDR took over - the U.S. was definitely in a depression.

    For one thing, the GDP had dropped from $103.7 billion in '29 to only $58.7 billion in '32 (FDR entered office in March '33) - as shown at the top of the link provided below.

    That definitely constitutes a depression.

    http://www.shmoop.com/great-depression/statistics.html
    Last edited by DA60; 06-07-12 at 02:23 PM.

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    Re: US Debt Could Double in 25 Years With Current Policies

    Quote Originally Posted by Eighty Deuce View Post

    Greece dug an uber-deep hole. Their party is over. They have to fix their system, and suck it up.
    Any comparing Greece to the US situation is beyond .... stupid frankly. At best the US is Greece mega ultra light and only on some points.

    There are sooooo many differences between the US and Greece.. for one, American's actually pay taxes!.. Greeks dont! (relatively speaking). The problem in the US is the taxes are lopsided (rich get relatively off easy while the middle class take the relatively bigger burden) and too low.... yes you heard me.. Your taxes are too low, especially for the well off. Deal with it. And yes the poor dont pay federal income taxes.. hello... there is a reason!.. They are POOR! Cut your deductions and all that crap, and capital gains.. make all capital gains income as normal "income".. yes it will mean the rich actually will have to pay the same % as the rest of the population.. I dont think Paris Hilton and Romney will starve or have to cut their spending spree in luxury goods, homes, cars and drugs (Paris Hiltion). Point is, you will never ever ever fix your problem with cutting of costs only..

    Also the level of corruption in the US is much lower than Greece.. where corruption is a national sport that effects all parts of government. In the US it is only the leading parts.. Congress and such.,.. but of course the corruption is on an epic scale considering the money involved. Bi-Partisan my ass.. you need transparency and accountability first, then you can talk about bi-partisanship. Problem is that will never happen as long as being a politician in Washington is a get rich fast scheme.

    On top of that there is of course spending... which has to come down across the board, but without throwing the elderly under the bus and telling poor people to die in the ally next to the ER because they got no insurance. Means test social security. There is no reason for Romney to receive a cent when hits retirement. Even Warren Buffet gets Social Security as far as I know. And the only way you can tackle Medicaid and Care.. is to tackle the private healthcare sector as they are the ones dictating the far far far higher than inflation rises in costs. I read a story about a guy who's insurance was about to cut him off from his prescription because his yearly 1500 dollar limit had been reached. Now, that limit was the same as he got 10+ years ago, but the price of his insurance has tripped since that. That is a microcosm of the huge problem with your private driven for greed medical system.

    You could also easily cut 1/3 of military spending if you wanted too. There is no reason for half the bases you have in the middle of no where, plus you have too much waste in procurement and administration. Cutting one of the branches of the military would go far... other countries have done it, so why not the US? Oversea bases .. dump them. No reason to have bases in the UK or Germany any more. Point is, there is plenty of money to be saved in the military.. but as usual local interests of politicians get priority over common sense.... like forcing the military to have weapons systems they dont want, just because they will be built at inflated prices in the state of one of the top senators.. pathetic method of governance.

    But will any of this actually happen .. of course not, because the GOP are ... and the Dems are .... self censoring because of the new posting rules... but lets just say, they are more interested in fighting each other and gaining more and more power and money for them and their "friends" than actually helping the rest of the 99% of the population that struggle each day and are getting poorer and poorer. For example.. the wage of a server in the US.. you know the guy who serves you dinner in the fancy restaurant.. has not gone up the last 20 years according to a recent study. Prices have of course... thank god for tips I guess.

    The sad part.. even if one party wins a majority in all parts of elective government.. they wont do jack **** .. after they did not do jack **** last time it happened and the time before that.. and before that.. Same old story.
    PeteEU

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    Re: US Debt Could Double in 25 Years With Current Policies

    Quote Originally Posted by Erod View Post
    This is exactly right, but it sure wasn't taught that way in school, was it?

    We got out of the Depression by rebuilding Europe after WWII. That war was the largest transfer of money in world history. (Now, we seem determined to give it all to China.)
    Yes, World War II got the United States out of the Depression. No, FDR did not cause the Depression. That is just false.

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    Re: US Debt Could Double in 25 Years With Current Policies

    Quote Originally Posted by Kushinator View Post
    Nonsense. Nearly half of all banks in the U.S. failed before 1933, when FDR was sworn into office. One of his firsts initiatives, known as the Banking Act of 1933 actually put in place a regulatory framework that increased confidence in a (at that time) failing banking sector. The kool-aid might have tasted great on the way down, but it's awful on the way up.
    Yes.

    The Banking Act did stabilize the banking sector - and also caused the DOW to boom (temporarily).

    BUT...

    his Keynesian policies were (imo) an overall failure.

    From mid '33 (after the boom from the Banking Act ended) until mid '42...the DOW actually went down.

    And from '33 until '42 - the unemployment rate averaged over 17%. And it was still over 17% in 1939...despite years of MASSIVE government spending (and skyrocketing national debt).

    Dow Jones Industrial Average (1900 - Present Monthly) - Charting Tools - StockCharts.com

    The Great Depression Statistics



    Note - the 1920/21 Depression was handled by the government massively cutting spending, balancing the budget and basically letting the economy right itself.

    The result was both the DOW and the unemployment rate were back to near pre-Depression levels within 3 1/2 years and the national debt actually went down.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Depress...920%E2%80%9321
    Last edited by DA60; 06-07-12 at 02:25 PM.

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    Re: US Debt Could Double in 25 Years With Current Policies

    Quote Originally Posted by DA60 View Post
    Yes.
    his Keynesian policies were (imo) an overall failure.
    What Keynesian policies?

    It is not very unreasonable that the rich should contribute to the public expense, not only in proportion to their revenue, but something more than in that proportion.
    "Wealth of Nations," Book V, Chapter II, Part II, Article I, pg.911

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    Re: US Debt Could Double in 25 Years With Current Policies

    Quote Originally Posted by Kushinator View Post
    What Keynesian policies?

    If you look at the chart you provided - there were surpluses before 1930. There were none again until after WW2.

    Classic Keynesian government (attempted) stimulation of the economy through deficit spending.

    Here is a more detailed description:

    Federal Budget Receipts and Outlays

    From 1931 until 1947 - every single year a deficit (though the gigantic WW2 deficits are obviously understandable).
    Last edited by DA60; 06-07-12 at 03:13 PM.

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    Re: US Debt Could Double in 25 Years With Current Policies

    Quote Originally Posted by DA60 View Post
    If you look at the chart you provided - there were surpluses before 1930. There were none until after WW2.

    Classic Keynesian government (attempted) stimulation of the economy through deficit spending.

    Here is a more detailed description:

    Federal Budget Receipts and Outlays
    You did not answer my question. Until the massive deficit spending for WWII, the U.S. did not actually engage in Keynesian policies.
    It is not very unreasonable that the rich should contribute to the public expense, not only in proportion to their revenue, but something more than in that proportion.
    "Wealth of Nations," Book V, Chapter II, Part II, Article I, pg.911

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