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Thread: US Debt Could Double in 25 Years With Current Policies

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    Re: US Debt Could Double in 25 Years With Current Policies

    Austerity does work. That it is "hurting" Greece right now is because Greece dug hole that deep. But continue to increase debt so as to fund their lard-ass largesse is doomed. Spending what we ain't got is what created this mess. Spending more of what we ain't got will not fix it.

    Here is true austerity. And it works. Estonia.

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    Re: US Debt Could Double in 25 Years With Current Policies

    Quote Originally Posted by AdamT View Post
    The only idiotic thing we can do right now is NOT borrow more. In real terms, we are presently able to borrow at negative interest rates. If we borrow and spend the money on sensible things like infrastructure improvements those projects generally net a positive return return of at least a percentage or two in direct revenue enhancement going forward and over the long haul. And that isn't even considering keynsian amplification effects, if you're in the group that doesn't believe in keynsian economics. In other words, by not borrowing we are literally giving away free money.
    Hey. We gave Obama a trillion bucks. For all those shovel-ready infrastructure jobs. And he blew it.

    Your assumption is that the government will spend the money wisely. Big fail. Proven fail. Massive mistake.

    "Free money" ............. that's ****ed-up right there.

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    Re: US Debt Could Double in 25 Years With Current Policies

    Quote Originally Posted by Eighty Deuce View Post
    Austerity does work. That it is "hurting" Greece right now is because Greece dug hole that deep. But continue to increase debt so as to fund their lard-ass largesse is doomed. Spending what we ain't got is what created this mess. Spending more of what we ain't got will not fix it.

    Here is true austerity. And it works. Estonia.

    News Headlines
    The "Estonian miracle" is a myth, unfortunately.

    Destroying Estonia » Counterpunch: Tells the Facts, Names the Names

    Macro Matters: Is Estonia the austerity crown jewel?
    "The necessaries of life occasion the great expense of the poor. They find it difficult to get food, and the greater part of their little revenue is spent in getting it. The luxuries and vanities of life occasion the principal expense of the rich, and a magnificent house embellishes and sets off to the best advantage all the other luxuries and vanities which they possess. ... It is not very unreasonable that the rich should contribute to the public expense, not only in proportion to their revenue, but something more than in that proportion."

    -- Adam Smith

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    Re: US Debt Could Double in 25 Years With Current Policies

    Quote Originally Posted by Eighty Deuce View Post
    Hey. We gave Obama a trillion bucks. For all those shovel-ready infrastructure jobs. And he blew it.

    Your assumption is that the government will spend the money wisely. Big fail. Proven fail. Massive mistake.

    "Free money" ............. that's ****ed-up right there.
    That's a silly statement. First, it wasn't a trillion dollars. Second, only a portion of the $800 billion was spent on infrastructure, with the biggest single portion going to payroll tax cuts (people keeping more of their money), and the second biggest portion going to states to bolster their flagging budgets. Only about 6% of the stimulus was directed at infrastructure, and it was used to complete thousands of worthwhile projects. It's actually quite funny seeing all the anti-stimulus Republican legislators posing for pictures at ribbon cutting ceremonies for infrastructure projects opening in their districts as a result of stimulus spending. http://thinkprogress.org/wp-content/...1/06/hanna.jpg
    "The necessaries of life occasion the great expense of the poor. They find it difficult to get food, and the greater part of their little revenue is spent in getting it. The luxuries and vanities of life occasion the principal expense of the rich, and a magnificent house embellishes and sets off to the best advantage all the other luxuries and vanities which they possess. ... It is not very unreasonable that the rich should contribute to the public expense, not only in proportion to their revenue, but something more than in that proportion."

    -- Adam Smith

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    Re: US Debt Could Double in 25 Years With Current Policies

    Quote Originally Posted by AdamT View Post
    The only idiotic thing we can do right now is NOT borrow more. In real terms, we are presently able to borrow at negative interest rates. If we borrow and spend the money on sensible things like infrastructure improvements those projects generally net a positive return return of at least a percentage or two in direct revenue enhancement going forward and over the long haul. And that isn't even considering keynsian amplification effects, if you're in the group that doesn't believe in keynsian economics. In other words, by not borrowing we are literally giving away free money.
    I am sure you know that currently, the buyer of most of our debt issuance is the Federal Reserve. So I guess you are saying that Obama should borrow more money from his buddy Bernanke. While it is true that we can borrow at low rates currently, as this debt you hope we incur will not be repaid, what will be the rate you want to impose on our children.

    It is interesting that the administration lapdogs like Summers and now the post above are now advocating this same Obama pitch.

    Nice try but I doubt people will be again fooled by another lousy "stimulus" deal.

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    Re: US Debt Could Double in 25 Years With Current Policies

    Quote Originally Posted by washunut View Post
    I am sure you know that currently, the buyer of most of our debt issuance is the Federal Reserve. So I guess you are saying that Obama should borrow more money from his buddy Bernanke. While it is true that we can borrow at low rates currently, as this debt you hope we incur will not be repaid, what will be the rate you want to impose on our children.

    It is interesting that the administration lapdogs like Summers and now the post above are now advocating this same Obama pitch.

    Nice try but I doubt people will be again fooled by another lousy "stimulus" deal.
    Oh I agree that people will not be "fooled" by reality, and thus we will be stuck in a lengthy, Japan-style economic slump. There are WAY too many stupid people in this country.
    "The necessaries of life occasion the great expense of the poor. They find it difficult to get food, and the greater part of their little revenue is spent in getting it. The luxuries and vanities of life occasion the principal expense of the rich, and a magnificent house embellishes and sets off to the best advantage all the other luxuries and vanities which they possess. ... It is not very unreasonable that the rich should contribute to the public expense, not only in proportion to their revenue, but something more than in that proportion."

    -- Adam Smith

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    Re: US Debt Could Double in 25 Years With Current Policies

    His article tries to excuse Estonia's numbers. Meanwhile, Estonia is doing well, and getting better.

    All we have managed to do in accumulating debt, and as is far more evident in Greece, is to subsidize becoming non-competitive. And accumulate huge debt. Continuing to do what got us in this mess is not the solution. Austerity means belt tightening. And it will fix our broken foundation.
    Last edited by Eighty Deuce; 06-07-12 at 11:47 AM.

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    Re: US Debt Could Double in 25 Years With Current Policies

    Quote Originally Posted by AdamT View Post
    That's a silly statement. First, it wasn't a trillion dollars. Second, only a portion of the $800 billion was spent on infrastructure, with the biggest single portion going to payroll tax cuts (people keeping more of their money), and the second biggest portion going to states to bolster their flagging budgets. Only about 6% of the stimulus was directed at infrastructure, and it was used to complete thousands of worthwhile projects. It's actually quite funny seeing all the anti-stimulus Republican legislators posing for pictures at ribbon cutting ceremonies for infrastructure projects opening in their districts as a result of stimulus spending. http://thinkprogress.org/wp-content/...1/06/hanna.jpg
    Obama has averaged 1.3T per year in deficit. Were the Bush tax cuts repealed on Day One of his term, he still averages $ 1 trillion per year of deficit.

    And we wallow in the same mud still.

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    Re: US Debt Could Double in 25 Years With Current Policies

    Quote Originally Posted by washunut View Post
    I am sure you know that currently, the buyer of most of our debt issuance is the Federal Reserve. So I guess you are saying that Obama should borrow more money from his buddy Bernanke. While it is true that we can borrow at low rates currently, as this debt you hope we incur will not be repaid, what will be the rate you want to impose on our children.

    It is interesting that the administration lapdogs like Summers and now the post above are now advocating this same Obama pitch.

    Nice try but I doubt people will be again fooled by another lousy "stimulus" deal.
    Its the classic them and us deal. We get to play Santa Claus and borrow and spend TODAY, but they have to play Grinch and pay for it TOMORROW. I would gladly buy the house a round if I could put that on your tab. All of the talk of gov't "investments" fails to include that the real investors are the taxpayers of TOMORROW. If we could borrow our way to prosperity it would have been done a hundred years ago. How long before someone wakes up and says I want a real return on investment? When Obama ends his "historic" and "unprecedented" next term we will have a national debt of at least $22 TRILLION. If Romney takes over that may only mean a 2016 national debt of $19 TRILLION (if all goes well). No they can't!
    “The reasonable man adapts himself to the world: the unreasonable one persists to adapt the world to himself.
    Therefore all progress depends on the unreasonable man.” ― George Bernard Shaw, Man and Superman

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    Re: US Debt Could Double in 25 Years With Current Policies

    Quote Originally Posted by Eighty Deuce View Post
    His article tries to excuse Estonia's numbers. Meanwhile, Estonia is doing well, and getting better.

    All we have managed to do in accumulating debt, and as is far more evident in Greece, is to subsidize becoming non-competitive. And accumulate huge debt. Continuing to do what got us in this mess is not the solution. Austerity means belt tightening. And it will fix our broken foundation.
    What they are saying is that Estonia is not comparable to Greece, or the US. Estonia is doing pretty well under its current policies. Would they be doing better if they had a more pro-growth policy? Very likely.
    "The necessaries of life occasion the great expense of the poor. They find it difficult to get food, and the greater part of their little revenue is spent in getting it. The luxuries and vanities of life occasion the principal expense of the rich, and a magnificent house embellishes and sets off to the best advantage all the other luxuries and vanities which they possess. ... It is not very unreasonable that the rich should contribute to the public expense, not only in proportion to their revenue, but something more than in that proportion."

    -- Adam Smith

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