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Thread: US Debt Could Double in 25 Years With Current Policies

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    Re: US Debt Could Double in 25 Years With Current Policies

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    Could you please show us how you got to this 75% tax rate for everyone? How long are you taking to pay down the debt?
    can you please show me where ending the bush tax cuts would pay for our deficits????

    if you read the part AT THE CURRENT RATE WE ARE SPENDING,not what we owe now.
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    Re: US Debt Could Double in 25 Years With Current Policies

    The debt is currently as unsustainable levels, that, I think no one would disagree with. The question is this: How do we decrease the debt?

    Personally, I would like to argue against austerity.

    First there must be a clear definition of the term austerity. Austerity is defined as "A state of reduced spending and increased frugality in the financial sector." (Austerity Definition | Investopedia)

    While this may seem good, in reality what occurs is that the services that mainly poor and middle class people use are decreased. This can be seen in Greece where health and education spending were decreased. (What the Greek austerity measures look like - World - CBC News) Privatization also occurs as well. (NEWS: Greek austerity measures include water privatization, oil exploration)

    Overall, austerity measures aren't good as they make long-term unemployment worse. (IMF Report: Austerity Measures Hurt Income, Make Long-Term Unemployment Worse)

    Such measures won't work due to the fact that they haven't worked anywhere else and only create a worse situation in the long-run rather than resolving systemic problems. Austerity doesn't have a history of working, for proof one only need to look at the structural adjustment programs that the IMF handed out to the third-world countries. In the case of Jamaica, where the government agreed to IMF austerity in 1977, by 1980 “the economy in Jamaica was in worse condition than before the IMF loan. Thirty percent of the island’s workforce was unemployed and the foreign exchange deficit was significantly higher than in 1977.” (Neocolonialism - Bibliography - African, Countries, Independence, and Africa - JRank Articles)

    One may argue that cutting spending would be a good thing, however Washington is utterly paralyzed. When push came to shove, both parties couldn't even agree on how to enact the spending cuts. (U.S. Supercommittee Fails to Reach Agreement as Across-the-Board Cuts Loom - Bloomberg) In addition to this the House Republicans have shown themselves to be untrustworthy as they agreed to defense cuts, but instead cut social programs. (To Avoid Military Cuts, House Passes Domestic Ones : NPR)

    Thus, this has created a situation where not only can both parties agree on how to do cuts, but neither side will trust the other. This does not bode well for the country at large.
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    Re: US Debt Could Double in 25 Years With Current Policies

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Invisible View Post
    The debt is currently as unsustainable levels, that, I think no one would disagree with. The question is this: How do we decrease the debt?

    Personally, I would like to argue against austerity.

    First there must be a clear definition of the term austerity. Austerity is defined as "A state of reduced spending and increased frugality in the financial sector." (Austerity Definition | Investopedia)

    While this may seem good, in reality what occurs is that the services that mainly poor and middle class people use are decreased. This can be seen in Greece where health and education spending were decreased. (What the Greek austerity measures look like - World - CBC News) Privatization also occurs as well. (NEWS: Greek austerity measures include water privatization, oil exploration)

    Overall, austerity measures aren't good as they make long-term unemployment worse. (IMF Report: Austerity Measures Hurt Income, Make Long-Term Unemployment Worse)

    Such measures won't work due to the fact that they haven't worked anywhere else and only create a worse situation in the long-run rather than resolving systemic problems. Austerity doesn't have a history of working, for proof one only need to look at the structural adjustment programs that the IMF handed out to the third-world countries. In the case of Jamaica, where the government agreed to IMF austerity in 1977, by 1980 “the economy in Jamaica was in worse condition than before the IMF loan. Thirty percent of the island’s workforce was unemployed and the foreign exchange deficit was significantly higher than in 1977.” (Neocolonialism - Bibliography - African, Countries, Independence, and Africa - JRank Articles)

    One may argue that cutting spending would be a good thing, however Washington is utterly paralyzed. When push came to shove, both parties couldn't even agree on how to enact the spending cuts. (U.S. Supercommittee Fails to Reach Agreement as Across-the-Board Cuts Loom - Bloomberg) In addition to this the House Republicans have shown themselves to be untrustworthy as they agreed to defense cuts, but instead cut social programs. (To Avoid Military Cuts, House Passes Domestic Ones : NPR)

    Thus, this has created a situation where not only can both parties agree on how to do cuts, but neither side will trust the other. This does not bode well for the country at large.
    in reality austerity is something that should be applied to a good economy allowing financial room under a bad economy.austerity like seen in europe is out of necessity.america would not suffer much from austerity,since most services do not run the economy,and the public sector jobs are not used as much in america as they were in countries like greece.simply put its hard to sustain a country by paying out more than what you make,and european countries face the problem of where the money comes from,they cant just endlessly borrow money and expect creditors to not say at some point enough is enough!!!

    america definitaly has the wiggle room for austerity under a bad economy.the problem is the goofballs on the hill seem to think massive cuts to one program or massive tax increases will fix the problem.realisticly they can chop a little off of each program without causing any major problems,rather than cutting large amounts off of certain programs.taxes can be creeped in without causing any alarm or backlash from the economy,rather than the traditional tax hike which tends to leave immediate negative effects.iraq is over and afghanistan is winding down,naturally the military budget should wind down as well to pre war levels,and of course at the end of the day there are many forms of corporate welfare provided by democrats and republicans topay back their campaign debts.i mean if i actually looked through the budget i could find more,like the irs,our tax code is so complex its almost counter productive by costing billions to enforce rather than a simple effective tax code.

    people in america may not like the thought of austerity now,but its better than waiting until we hit a brick wall like europe and end up suffering a no win economic situation like they did.
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    Re: US Debt Could Double in 25 Years With Current Policies

    Conservatives like beerftw seem to think that the economy operates like an individual's bank account. There's no need to pay down the deficit, just reduce it. The US would not be able to pay down its deficit without becoming an export based economy, which isn't going to happen.
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    Re: US Debt Could Double in 25 Years With Current Policies

    Quote Originally Posted by beerftw View Post
    in reality austerity is something that should be applied to a good economy allowing financial room under a bad economy.austerity like seen in europe is out of necessity.america would not suffer much from austerity,since most services do not run the economy,and the public sector jobs are not used as much in america as they were in countries like greece.simply put its hard to sustain a country by paying out more than what you make,and european countries face the problem of where the money comes from,they cant just endlessly borrow money and expect creditors to not say at some point enough is enough!!!

    america definitaly has the wiggle room for austerity under a bad economy.the problem is the goofballs on the hill seem to think massive cuts to one program or massive tax increases will fix the problem.realisticly they can chop a little off of each program without causing any major problems,rather than cutting large amounts off of certain programs.taxes can be creeped in without causing any alarm or backlash from the economy,rather than the traditional tax hike which tends to leave immediate negative effects.iraq is over and afghanistan is winding down,naturally the military budget should wind down as well to pre war levels,and of course at the end of the day there are many forms of corporate welfare provided by democrats and republicans topay back their campaign debts.i mean if i actually looked through the budget i could find more,like the irs,our tax code is so complex its almost counter productive by costing billions to enforce rather than a simple effective tax code.

    people in america may not like the thought of austerity now,but its better than waiting until we hit a brick wall like europe and end up suffering a no win economic situation like they did.
    Did you actually read what I wrote?

    Austerity has never and does not work. Even the IMF admitted it when discussing Greece (IMF official admits austerity is harming Greece | Business | The Guardian).

    Edit: While I agree with some of what you are saying, it isn't politically possible, at least not right now.
    Last edited by Mr. Invisible; 06-05-12 at 08:59 PM.
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    Re: US Debt Could Double in 25 Years With Current Policies

    Quote Originally Posted by Khayembii Communique View Post
    Conservatives like beerftw seem to think that the economy operates like an individual's bank account. There's no need to pay down the deficit, just reduce it. The US would not be able to pay down its deficit without becoming an export based economy, which isn't going to happen.
    you cant pay down a deficit,only the debt.the deficit is the amount per fiscal year that exceeded income.it doesnt take a genius to see at that rate it would not only never be payed down but would lead to an economic collapse down the road that would make the great depression look small.

    you ofcouse can be in a budget surplus and pay down the debt quite easily,its called NOT SPENDING MORE THAN YOU MAKE and to fix this you need to both increase income and decrease spending.and last time i checked america was the wirlds third largest exporter of goods.
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    Re: US Debt Could Double in 25 Years With Current Policies

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Invisible View Post
    Did you actually read what I wrote?

    Austerity has never and does not work. Even the IMF admitted it when discussing Greece (IMF official admits austerity is harming Greece | Business | The Guardian).

    Edit: While I agree with some of what you are saying, it isn't politically possible, at least not right now.
    that draws some confusion to me,if reducing spending doesnt work(austerity),and spending doesnt work(stimulous),i guess the only thing left would be to hit rock bottom and start over again.

    http://www.nytimes.com/2011/12/30/op...was-right.html

    heres an opinion piece from the nytimes about keynes saying austerity works under a boom not a slump,maybe austerity doesnt work only because they use it fix a problem rather than prevent it.
    Last edited by beerftw; 06-05-12 at 09:25 PM.
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    Re: US Debt Could Double in 25 Years With Current Policies

    Quote Originally Posted by beerftw View Post
    can you please show me where ending the bush tax cuts would pay for our deficits????

    if you read the part AT THE CURRENT RATE WE ARE SPENDING,not what we owe now.
    That translates as : NO I cannot tell you that.
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    Re: US Debt Could Double in 25 Years With Current Policies

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    That translates as : NO I cannot tell you that.
    and of course that translates into no i cant tell you how eliminating the bush tax cuts and save less than 1tril over ten years will pay off a deficit thats bigger than that in one year,

    i provided my observation off the fact debt is rising at a fast pace,ifit continues to rise no amount of of tax cuts can pay for it,just raising it to pre bush levels cant even pay one years deficite and it takes a decade to save that,so how much would we need to pay it off at 25tril debt and probably by then double the deficite.unless gdp skyrockets and maintains a constant level no amount of logical tax hikes could ever cover the deficit!!!!!!!!!!
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    Re: US Debt Could Double in 25 Years With Current Policies

    Quote Originally Posted by beerftw View Post
    that draws some confusion to me,if reducing spending doesnt work(austerity),and spending doesnt work(stimulous),i guess the only thing left would be to hit rock bottom and start over again.

    http://www.nytimes.com/2011/12/30/op...was-right.html

    heres an opinion piece from the nytimes about keynes saying austerity works under a boom not a slump,maybe austerity doesnt work only because they use it fix a problem rather than prevent it.
    He's quite correct. In a situation such as this the government should spend money to boost the economy and then when the good times come back. decrease spending and increase revenue to pay off the debt that was incurred from the stimulus. However, in real life, this doesn't happen, which is a reason why we even have this debt problem.
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