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Thread: US Debt Could Double in 25 Years With Current Policies

  1. #141
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    Re: US Debt Could Double in 25 Years With Current Policies

    Quote Originally Posted by DA60 View Post
    3) Do you have links to unbiased, factual statistics that prove that the two were so dissimilar that to compare the two in the way I did is completely ineffective?
    Some starting points:

    Kindleberger, C. Manias, Panics, and Crashes: A Hstory of Financial Crises, 3rd edition, New York: Wiley, 1996.

    Shiller, R. Irrational Exuberance, 2nd edition, Princeton University Press, 2005

    Meltzer, A. A History of the Federal Reserve, Volume I 1913-1951, Chicago, The University of Chicago Press, 2003

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    Re: US Debt Could Double in 25 Years With Current Policies

    Quote Originally Posted by DA60 View Post
    Besides - the definiton from the Financial Times disagrees with you and the other guy's opinions.

    You honestly think I should take two faceless, nameless people on a chat forum's word over the Financial Times?
    Nothing KC or I said contradicts the FT definition. Your error is in assuming that the definition is an end point, and no context beyond the words of the definition is necessary. If you read Keynes's General Theory (and I posted the link), you will gain insight into that context and, therefore, have a much improved understanding of Keynesian economics.

    Finally, I'm not at all suggesting that you take my word literally. I am suggesting that you take a look at what Keynes wrote rather than relying on brief definitions that cannot, by their brevitiy, provide the context and nuance that is essential to understanding Keynesian economics.

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    Re: US Debt Could Double in 25 Years With Current Policies

    Quote Originally Posted by donsutherland1 View Post
    Nothing KC or I said contradicts the FT definition. Your error is in assuming that the definition is an end point, and no context beyond the words of the definition is necessary.
    The New Deal is clearly an example of Keynesian-style government stimulus of an economy in recession/depression - not the entire Keynes 'philosophy', but the part related to this aspect.

    The FT definition bares that out.

    You two disagree?

    Fine...whatever.
    Last edited by DA60; 06-09-12 at 03:16 AM.

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    Re: US Debt Could Double in 25 Years With Current Policies

    Quote Originally Posted by donsutherland1 View Post
    Some starting points:

    Kindleberger, C. Manias, Panics, and Crashes: A Hstory of Financial Crises, 3rd edition, New York: Wiley, 1996.

    Shiller, R. Irrational Exuberance, 2nd edition, Princeton University Press, 2005

    Meltzer, A. A History of the Federal Reserve, Volume I 1913-1951, Chicago, The University of Chicago Press, 2003
    Come on now?

    I said 'links to unbiased, factual statistics'...not suggest entire books.

    Almost anyone can do the latter.

    But if that is the best you can do...so be it.



    Btw - imo, the Great Depression was caused by the Fed increasing the money supply in the mid-late 20's by 62% more then anything else.




    BTW - the two worst economic downturns of the 20th century happened within 20 years of the creation of the Fed.

    Coincidence?

    I think not.
    Last edited by DA60; 06-09-12 at 03:40 AM.

  5. #145
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    Re: US Debt Could Double in 25 Years With Current Policies

    Quote Originally Posted by DA60 View Post
    BTW - the two worst economic downturns of the 20th century happened within 20 years of the creation of the Fed.

    Coincidence?

    I think not.

    I suspected that you might hold to the fallacy that the institution of central banks/central banking has made things worse, hence I suggested the first volume of the Meltzer book. That volume covers the time period in question. To be sure, the Fed has made mistakes, but the Great Depression was not largely or wholly the Fed's creation. Many other factors led to the credit boom and mania that it financed, including the role of gold. The disproportionate role of gold also reduced U.S. flexibility to deal with the economic crisis once it was underway.

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    Re: US Debt Could Double in 25 Years With Current Policies

    Quote Originally Posted by donsutherland1 View Post
    I suspected that you might hold to the fallacy that the institution of central banks/central banking has made things worse, hence I suggested the first volume of the Meltzer book. That volume covers the time period in question. To be sure, the Fed has made mistakes, but the Great Depression was not largely or wholly the Fed's creation. Many other factors led to the credit boom and mania that it financed, including the role of gold. The disproportionate role of gold also reduced U.S. flexibility to deal with the economic crisis once it was underway.
    I strongly recommend watching this video.

    "Why Was the Fed Created?" with George Selgin -- Ron Paul Fed Lecture Series, Pt 1/3 - YouTube
    Last edited by DA60; 06-09-12 at 03:26 PM.

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    Re: US Debt Could Double in 25 Years With Current Policies

    Quote Originally Posted by DA60 View Post

    A ****en ron paul video ??? boy thatís gotta put the rubes in their place.
    The haggardness of poverty is everywhere seen contrasted with the sleekness of wealth, the exhorted labor of some compensating for the idleness of others, wretched hovels by the side of stately colonnades, the rags of indigence blended with the ensigns of opulence; in a word, the most useless profusion in the midst of the most urgent wants.Jean-Baptiste Say

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    Re: US Debt Could Double in 25 Years With Current Policies

    Quote Originally Posted by beerftw View Post
    well if we let the tax cuts expire,umm wouldnt even raise enough to fund the government by far.

    at our current rate of spending,well probably have to run 75% tax rates for everyone to pay down this debt without cutting costs.

    god forbid we cut programs america survived without,because not handing out stimulous checks and funding deads green companies and buying frivilous military gear will turn america into somalia

    I like this plan to cut our debt in half this year.

    Both political parties when in power have continued to charge on the US credit card and have increased the debt.

    So you ask – How can we pay down the debt? How can we eliminate the $13 trillion and start over?

    Well the answer comes from the Ronald Reagan former Director of the Budget – David Stockman. He says tax the personal net wealth of the richest 5% of Americans. What is the personal net wealth of the top 5%?

    Stockman estimates that the richest 5% or approximately 1.5 million Americans are worth $40 trillion in net wealth. Net wealth is the amount a person is worth after all debts are subtracted from all the assets, cash, stock, real estate, etc. The top 5% are richer than the bottom 95% of all Americans, 308.5 million.

    In 1985 this top 5% had a net wealth of just $8 trillion. Most of the gain in wealth is directly from low tax rates.

    Keep in mind this is “personal” wealth not corporate wealth and has NO affect on corporations or business.

    Stockman says we should have a one- time 15% tax on this net wealth that would bring in approximately $6 trillion and use this to pay down the debt. We would still have about $7 trillion in debt.
    How the US Nation Debt could be paid-off NOW

    Those people would never miss that 15%. Since we have been so nice as to allow their net worth to increase by 5 times since 1985 with our ever lowering tax rates, don't you think they could help old uncle sam out of this pickle?
    I'm tired of people ranting about how the rich CAN'T bail us out if we needed them too. It's a lie
    I don't want them to but they could pay off our debt tommorow and not change one thing in their life. Where do you think alot of that money we owe was spent?
    The right way out of the debt problem is growth, nothing shrinks our debt faster than rising GDP's We certainly can't do what the Europeans did and make severe cuts.
    Last edited by iguanaman; 06-10-12 at 02:48 AM.

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    Re: US Debt Could Double in 25 Years With Current Policies

    Quote Originally Posted by treedancer View Post
    A ****en ron paul video ??? boy that’s gotta put the rubes in their place.
    It's not a Ron Paul video.

    It's a video from a man who worked for Ron Paul's campaign outside of his normal career.

  10. #150
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    Re: US Debt Could Double in 25 Years With Current Policies

    Quote Originally Posted by DA60 View Post
    The video is from a libertarian perspective and it does not blame the Fed for all of what has gone wrong economically since the Fed's creation. Prof. Selgin's view is not the all-out assault on the Fed some assume it is.
    Last edited by donsutherland1; 06-11-12 at 10:15 AM.

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