• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

Feds to Florida: halt non-citizen voter purge

Fishstyx said:
[...] If they bring the information that makes them eligible, then they don't have to return. They've been notified of the purge, given time to respond and validate their eligibility. There is system in place that they can still cast their vote on election day.
Click to expand...
Ah. This is the part of the debate where you just make stuff up? I think you know what you did here, so I'll just bold it and let it lay there.

Fishstyx said:
So what you're saying, someone might get frustrated and say its not worth coming back? If thats the case, they don't take their right to vote seriously and I say say screw em!
Click to expand...
Indeed that is what I am saying, and you said just what you were programmed to say -- which helps Florida (and other Republican-led states) disenfranchise legal voters.
 
Just a question, I may have missed it, but has anyone proven, other than conjecture, what the political party registrations are for the folks who were notified? We keep hearing most of them were dems, but how do we know that?
 
Karl said:
Indeed that is what I am saying, and you said just what you were programmed to say -- which helps Florida (and other Republican-led states) disenfranchise legal voters.
Click to expand...
Programmed? What hackish BS. Bottom line there is system in place to GUARANTEE that no one is disenfranchised to vote. NO ONE! If you're eligible and follow the process, then your vote will count. System can take you all the way up to election day and it will still count. Simple as that.

The right to vote does require some responsibility of the voter. I don't want to see one eligible voter not allowed to vote just as I don't want to see one illegible voter cast a single vote. Without systems to ensure voting eligibility, election integrity is shot to sh!t.
 
clownboy said:
Just a question, I may have missed it, but has anyone proven, other than conjecture, what the political party registrations are for the folks who were notified? We keep hearing most of them were dems, but how do we know that?
Click to expand...


I don't think I've seen any charts/graphs/whatever that has shown "most of them were dems", that were notified. Good question.


I don't see any problem with a voter ID. We have them in my state. It was sent to me in the mail, I show it when I go to vote, and the system works fine.
 
Billy the Kid said:
I don't think I've seen any charts/graphs/whatever that has shown "most of them were dems", that were notified. Good question.


I don't see any problem with a voter ID. We have them in my state. It was sent to me in the mail, I show it when I go to vote, and the system works fine.
Click to expand...

As long as the system is free and available to all people, I am all for it.
 
Blue_State said:
As long as the system is free and available to all people, I am all for it.
Click to expand...



I registered to vote and the card was mailed to me. Simple process IMO.

Now if this is being done in Florida or any other state to stop legal voting, I'd be totally against it.

I can see why Florida is "jumpy" about the voting process, after the mess they had with the machines and the count. I believe Florida is trying to be proactive and not get caught behind the voting screw up 8 Ball again.
 
Fishstyx said:
Programmed? What hackish BS. [...]
Click to expand...
Of course programmed. Look back at your own words:

Fishstyx said:
[...] So what you're saying, someone might get frustrated and say its not worth coming back? If thats the case, they don't take their right to vote seriously and I say say screw em!
Click to expand...
Do you think a person would come up with that on their own, or do you think they would pick it up from a media drumbeat saying essentially the same thing over and over?

Fishstyx said:
I don't want to see one eligible voter not allowed to vote [...]
Click to expand...
Sure you do. You just said so above. You don't want to see 'lazy' voters allowed to vote, or at least don't care if they are disenfranchised due to extraordinary requirements (i.e., requirements that are in addition to what the average person has to tolerate).
 
Fishstyx said:
[...] Without systems to ensure voting eligibility, election integrity is shot to sh!t.
Click to expand...
Strawman. There is more than one possible system to ensure voting eligibility; at least I'd hope so, given the inaccuracy in the recent Scott plan.
 
At the end of the day there is no reason to question the integrity of our elections. The systems and penalties that have been in place for years are remarkably effective. If anything we should be making it EASIER to vote — not harder. Any attempt to crack down on the minuscule level of fraud that we have is almost certain to do more harm than good ... IF the objective is to have the most representative elections possible.
 
AdamT said:
[...] IF the objective is to have the most representative elections possible.
Click to expand...

Paul Weyrich, father of the right-wing movement and co-founder of the Heritage Foundation, Moral Majority and various other groups tells his flock that he doesn't want people to vote. That's why the GOP is obsessed with voter fraud---only they want to disenfranchise voters because as Weyrich said back in the '80's...the more voters there are---the less of a chance the
wingers have in any election.

Weyrich: "Now many of our Christians have what I call the goo-goo syndrome -- good government. They want everybody to vote. I don't want everybody to vote. Elections are not won by a majority of people, they never have been from the beginning of our country and they are not now. As a matter of fact, our leverage in the elections quite candidly goes up as the voting populace goes down.​


Paul Weyrich: Goo-Goo Syndrome | Crooks and Liars​
Click to expand...

. . . . . . . . . .​
 
Florida has requested use of the Department of Homeland Security’s database, SAVE, for months but they haven’t been granted access. Gov. Scott said this prompted them to taking the following action, “This afternoon we’ll be filing a lawsuit, the Florida Secretary of State office will be filing a lawsuit against the Department of Homeland Security to give us that database. We want to have fair, honest elections in our state and so we’ve been put in a position that we have to sue the federal government to get this information.”

Gov. Rick Scott Says Florida Will Sue Federal Gov’t After DOJ Stops Efforts to Purge Non-Citizens From System | Fox News Insider
Click to expand...


Just more obstruction so that demo's can cheat for Obama.


j-mac
 
Karl said:
Of course programmed. Look back at your own words:


Do you think a person would come up with that on their own, or do you think they would pick it up from a media drumbeat saying essentially the same thing over and over?


Sure you do. You just said so above. You don't want to see 'lazy' voters allowed to vote, or at least don't care if they are disenfranchised due to extraordinary requirements (i.e., requirements that are in addition to what the average person has to tolerate).
Click to expand...

:lamo Yup, I'm about as programmed as you are. You're repeating the same BS in opposition to this that has been repeated over and over and over.

And I did come up with on my own and its my opinion based on the actual fact, not some emotional plea to spin this into something its not. There is a system in place to ensure that every eligible voter can cast a vote and be counted. Something you appear to be ignoring.

And I want every eligible voter to vote. But its the voter has responsibilities in this as well, another thing you're choosing to ignore. I've vote Absentee. Have been doing it for the last 6 years as I haven't resided in FL since. Everytime I move, I update my address with my Elections Supervisor and every election I request a ballot. This my responsibility to do so. Its every voters responsibility to ensure they're voter registration/eligibility is current. AGAIN, the system in place allows a voter to do this up to 48 hours after election day, GUARANTEEING their vote will be counted.

I'll ask you, why do you think those opposing the law are fighting it instead of educating FL voters on the process in case they end up on this list? Currently, only 2,600 people have been placed on the purge list and sent notifications. Don't you think it would much easier to get a hold of the list and notify the recipients of ways to rectify it? Bottom line, the true nature of the opposition is because they don't want the system looked at too closely, they want the prospect of ineligible voters to vote because they believe that it will benefit them at the polls.
 
j-mac said:
Florida has requested use of the Department of Homeland Security’s database, SAVE, for months but they haven’t been granted access.
Click to expand...
Just more obstruction so that demo's can cheat for Obama.
Click to expand...
Florida is lying, as has already been documented in this thread.

Our state partner, the Florida Department of Highway Safety and Motor Vehicles (DHSMV), has access to the SAVE database and explored the possibility of using SAVE to update their information about the potential non-citizens, which would have given us the confirmation we need to identify ineligible voters. However, the agreement between your agency and DHSMV does not allow DHSMV to continually update their records, [...]

http://www.dos.state.fl.us/news/com...ter_to_DHS_Secretary_Napolitano_5-31-2012.pdf
Click to expand...
Clearly the bone of contention is continual access to the database, just to 'browse around', I suppose.

However, this is all a red herring since it is -- by federal law -- too close to the election for Florida to be tampering with the voter registration rolls.
 
clownboy said:
Just a question, I may have missed it, but has anyone proven, other than conjecture, what the political party registrations are for the folks who were notified? We keep hearing most of them were dems, but how do we know that?
Click to expand...

The articles say they're overwhelmingly democrats. What they're doing is finding names of illegal immigrants and then removing everybody with the same name. So, if there is a known illegal immigrant named "Jose Garcia", they remove all Jose Garcia's from the registration database. So, they're basically all Hispanic names, and less of them are Cuban names because the Cuban community in Florida is more established, and the Cubans are the Hispanics who vote Republican. So, non-Cuban Hispanics in Florida means Democrats.

As a side note, I don't know if they did this part again this time, or if they intend to, but last time they did this in 2000 with felons what happened was that they felt that the initial list based on exact name matches didn't have enough names, so they sent it back with instructions to "broaden their search". What that meant was that they didn't just exclude people who have the same name, but even people who had similar names. So, like if there was a felon named "Paul Johns" they would also exclude "Paul Johnson" and "Paula Johns" and whatnot. That's how they got up to 10s of thousands of names, again mostly minorities, removed that time.

Florida Republicans are old pros at this game. It is hands down the most politically corrupt state. They need to be on a very, very, short leash.
 
Fishstyx said:
Not sure why all the "sky if falling" rhetoric is being spewed. This process isn't an instant purge. You get notified that you're on the potential purge list. If it's in error, you have 30 days to provide the proof otherwise. Even if you move and never get the notice, you can still vote. You show up, you discover you're removed from the rolls. You can still cast a provisional ballot in which you have 48 hours to provide the documentation needed for your vote to count.

So out of 1,637 people, it appears that 1,169 people in Miami-Dade county have illegally registered to vote.
Click to expand...

No, no. The overwhelming majority of people who get the notice and are eligible to vote presumably won't bother getting it sorted out.
 
Karl said:
Florida is lying, as has already been documented in this thread.


Clearly the bone of contention is continual access to the database, just to 'browse around', I suppose.

However, this is all a red herring since it is -- by federal law -- too close to the election for Florida to be tampering with the voter registration rolls.
Click to expand...


The video provided with the quote had Scott interviewed on Cavuto, in it he laid out the process pretty clearly, and even if your eligibility has been questioned, you can either provide what they ask for, or if you can't get it in on time, then you are still allowed to vote with a provisional ballot until it is cleared up...

j-mac
 
Fishstyx said:
[...] I'll ask you, why do you think those opposing the law are fighting it instead of educating FL voters on the process [...]
Click to expand...
What law? There is no law; the governor simply decided to purge some people from the voter registration rolls in an illegal manner (as noted, it is too close to the election). They should have sorted this out on a case-by-case basis a long time ago, instead of trying to institute a bum rush at the last minute (again, circumstantial evidence of an attempt to reduce the voter rolls rather than correct them).

Fishstyx said:
[...] they want the prospect of ineligible voters to vote because they believe that it will benefit them at the polls.
Click to expand...
You have no evidence of any ineligible voters voting. What Scott is doing is creating a scenario where eligible voters will be removed from the rolls -- just as the 385 in predominately Democratic Miami-Dade were, until they fought back. Scott, and the right in general with all this voter fraud hysteria, has created a huge strawman; nothing more, nothing less.

You have no proof to substantiate your argument, which is quite simply based on hysteria. The proof -- the 385 in Miami-Dade -- all refutes your argument. In fact it refuted it about a hundred posts ago, and the whole right wing voter fraud strawman was refuted months ago -- so why are you still arguing? :2razz:
 
j-mac said:
The video provided with the quote had Scott interviewed on Cavuto, in it he laid out the process pretty clearly, and even if your eligibility has been questioned, you can either provide what they ask for, or if you can't get it in on time, then you are still allowed to vote with a provisional ballot until it is cleared up...
Click to expand...
Don't care. It's still harassment/intimidation/disefranchisement. Sure, you can vote, we're just gonna make it tough on you... if we think you might vote Democrat. We know what he's doing. We know why he's doing it. Florida has a history of it (and they are far from alone). In 2000 they gummed up the process so bad that SCOTUS should have simply thrown their electoral votes out.

And in this case, some of Florida's arguments are so stupid that it does indeed make one fear for the future of the republic.
 
Last edited:
Karl said:
Don't care. It's still harassment/intimidation/disenfranchisement.
Click to expand...


Here is where you could have stopped your post and been at least half honest. The half that is honest is "Don't care".... And why? because it doesn't matter if it is legitimate or not. The fact that the conservative side in here is arguing for a fair and honest vote for everyone, but that is not good enough for the liberal/progressive who would rather that illegals fraud our vote because in the end they are a voting block for the demo's.

j-mac
 
Karl said:
However, this is all a red herring since it is -- by federal law -- too close to the election for Florida to be tampering with the voter registration rolls.
Click to expand...

Not just federal law! This is also illegal under Florida law!
 
AdamT said:
Not just federal law! This is also illegal under Florida law!
Click to expand...


Now that would be a crazy world we live in today if protecting the integrity of the vote is against the law....Congrats progressives, you've almost destroyed the system.

j-mac
 
Karl said:
What law? There is no law; the governor simply decided to purge some people from the voter registration rolls in an illegal manner (as noted, it is too close to the election). They should have sorted this out on a case-by-case basis a long time ago, instead of trying to institute a bum rush at the last minute (again, circumstantial evidence of an attempt to reduce the voter rolls rather than correct them).


You have no evidence of any ineligible voters voting. What Scott is doing is creating a scenario where eligible voters will be removed from the rolls -- just as the 385 in predominately Democratic Miami-Dade were, until they fought back. Scott, and the right in general with all this voter fraud hysteria, has created a huge strawman; nothing more, nothing less.

You have no proof to substantiate your argument, which is quite simply based on hysteria. The proof -- the 385 in Miami-Dade -- all refutes your argument. In fact it refuted it about a hundred posts ago, and the whole right wing voter fraud strawman was refuted months ago -- so why are you still arguing? :2razz:
Click to expand...

Hysteria!?!? I'll ask a couple of simple question....how many eligible voters have been purged from the voter rolls as of today?

With a simple yes or no answer, is there a system in place to ensure eligible voters will be able to case their ballot on election day?
 
j-mac said:
Now that would be a crazy world we live in today if protecting the integrity of the vote is against the law....Congrats progressives, you've almost destroyed the system.

j-mac
Click to expand...


Spot on! :applaud
 
Rising Sun said:
Agreed that it is extremely wrong for government to arbitrarily deprive American citizens their right to vote but its more than just two soldiers:


As the link notes, however, this issue is more than simply cleaning up the legal voter list. While I believe Gov. Scott is wrong to deprive citizens their right to vote, the Obama administration, specifically DHS, is wrong to deny access to the SAVE database as noted in the link.
Click to expand...

Which citizens have been deprived their right to vote in Florida by Gov Scott ? Can you name these people and who turned them away from the voting booth? Maybe which city they were turned away from ?
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom