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Thread: Feds to Florida: halt non-citizen voter purge

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    Re: Feds to Florida: halt non-citizen voter purge

    Asked you to provide irrefutable proof.

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    Re: Feds to Florida: halt non-citizen voter purge

    Quote Originally Posted by teamosil View Post
    Ugh. Apparently you don't understand. Let me go over it again.

    The problem isn't removing undocumented immigrants from the rosters. That's fine. It's kind of pointless given that all studies ever done have shown that virtually no undocumented immigrants vote, but whatever.

    The problem is that they are excluding people based on extremely suspect criteria. For example, just having the same name as an undocumented immigrant. "Jose Garcia" or whatever. Guess what, there are hundreds of Jose Garcias in Florida. They will all be excluded if there is one Jose Garcia that is know to be an undocumented immigrant. Get it?

    Hey, you know what would solve that? A voter ID law....oh wait....Holder won't let those go either.


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    Re: Feds to Florida: halt non-citizen voter purge

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    Hey, you know what would solve that? A voter ID law....oh wait....Holder won't let those go either.
    You aren't making sense. How would a voter ID law prevent Florida from suppressing the minority vote? Regardless, Florida already has a voter ID law, so that would stop them, it would already have stopped the Republicans it already would have.

    I mean, man, are you seriously taking the position that we should just let politicians remove whatever names they want from the list of registered voters with no oversight, so close to an election that nobody can challenge it? How can you see that as anything other than massive election fraud? I mean, look, I get that understanding why voter ID laws are bad requires a decent amount of knowledge. I get that intuitively it sounds like it would make sense, so people who haven't looked into it support it. Fine. But this? Letting politicians just take names off the lists of who can vote right before an election? Letting them do it AGAIN after they so flagrantly rigged the election in 2000 with this exactly same trick? There is just no way that you honestly don't see why that is a problem.
    Total tax rates- People living in poverty: 16.2%. The median American: 27%. Working people who make over $140k/year: 31%. The top 1%: 30%. Super rich investors: around 15%. Help the democrats retake the house.

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    Re: Feds to Florida: halt non-citizen voter purge

    The voter I.D. law won't be in effect in the Wisconsin Recall Election.

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    Re: Feds to Florida: halt non-citizen voter purge

    Quote Originally Posted by Redbeard View Post
    Provide actual, irrefutable proof of your statement.
    The infamous Florida purge of 2000—conservative estimates place the number of voters targeted for removal close to 12,000—was generated in part by bad matching criteria. Florida registrants were purged from the rolls if 80 percent of the letters of their last names were the same as those of persons with criminal convictions. Those wrongly purged included Reverend Willie D. Whiting Jr., who, under the matching criteria, was considered the same person as Willie J. Whiting.

    Voter Purges | Brennan Center for Justice
    How many want to bet that the poster will refuse to accept this?

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    Re: Feds to Florida: halt non-citizen voter purge

    Quote Originally Posted by teamosil View Post
    You aren't making sense. How would a voter ID law prevent Florida from suppressing the minority vote? Regardless, Florida already has a voter ID law, so that would stop them, it would already have stopped the Republicans it already would have.

    I mean, man, are you seriously taking the position that we should just let politicians remove whatever names they want from the list of registered voters with no oversight, so close to an election that nobody can challenge it? How can you see that as anything other than massive election fraud? I mean, look, I get that understanding why voter ID laws are bad requires a decent amount of knowledge. I get that intuitively it sounds like it would make sense, so people who haven't looked into it support it. Fine. But this? Letting politicians just take names off the lists of who can vote right before an election? Letting them do it AGAIN after they so flagrantly rigged the election in 2000 with this exactly same trick? There is just no way that you honestly don't see why that is a problem.
    How can it possibly be a problem if someone has photo ID demonstrating they are an American citizen and thus entitled to vote?

    It would certainly be a problem for any politician, or his workers, to deny such a person the right to vote, and could be easily traced.

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    Re: Feds to Florida: halt non-citizen voter purge

    Quote Originally Posted by Grant View Post
    How can it possibly be a problem if someone has photo ID demonstrating they are an American citizen and thus entitled to vote?
    After this debate has been raging for 6 months are you telling me that you aren't even clear on what the issue is?

    First off, it isn't solving a real problem. No study, even ones conducted by far right organizations, has ever found any evidence of a significant number of non-citizens voting. So, that's it. That should be the end of the discussion. But, Republicans are generally too ignorant to know that the studies have shown it to be a lie and too stupid to understand that that defeats the point of the whole thing.

    Second, the politicians aren't just requiring a valid photo ID. They are using this as a chance to tack on all kinds of other requirements that they think will skew the elections their way. For example, if you have a military base and a lot of retirees in your district and the retirees vote for you, but not the military folks, you support a "voter ID" law that accepts medicare cards, but not military IDs. If you have a college in your district that you don't want voting, you don't accept student IDs or out of state IDs. If you don't want the urban population to vote, you require a driver's license, but not other types of state issued IDs or passports that people who don't drive might have. If you want to exclude younger people you require that it has their current address and if you want to exclude older people you require that it not have expired. Etc. All told, the requirements they have tacked on in some states will prevent as much as 10% of the legal voters from voting.

    It's just election fraud. Republicans are stupid enough that if somebody tells them they are doing something to fight against "illegals", they don't ask any more questions. So, politicians can do whatever they want when the Republicans are in the majority. They don't have to answer to anybody because their base isn't smart enough to understand stuff like this.
    Total tax rates- People living in poverty: 16.2%. The median American: 27%. Working people who make over $140k/year: 31%. The top 1%: 30%. Super rich investors: around 15%. Help the democrats retake the house.

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    Re: Feds to Florida: halt non-citizen voter purge

    Quote Originally Posted by Grant View Post
    How can it possibly be a problem if someone has photo ID demonstrating they are an American citizen and thus entitled to vote?

    It would certainly be a problem for any politician, or his workers, to deny such a person the right to vote, and could be easily traced.
    It wouldn't be a problem for the politican if they preventedx the right people from voting. Lucky for you, the Republicans have already thought of that.

    The problem is that there's totally different ways of seeing the problem. Those who are more on the liberal side want to make sure that everybody who can vote gets to vote. If a small percentage of fraud takes place, that's the price you pay, no system is perfect. The more conservative want to prevent all fraud, and if some people who can legally vote are prevenfrom voting, that's the price you pay, no system is perfect.

    Do you ever ask why this is such a big deal to Republicans now? Was there no voter fraud in '04? Xf course there was , but they won.


    Quote Originally Posted by Jetboogieman View Post
    This issue has been plowed more times than Paris Hilton.
    Quote Originally Posted by Oborosen View Post
    Too bad we have to observe human rights.

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    Re: Feds to Florida: halt non-citizen voter purge

    Quote Originally Posted by teamosil View Post
    After this debate has been raging for 6 months are you telling me that you aren't even clear on what the issue is?

    First off, it isn't solving a real problem. No study, even ones conducted by far right organizations, has ever found any evidence of a significant number of non-citizens voting. So, that's it. That should be the end of the discussion. But, Republicans are generally too ignorant to know that the studies have shown it to be a lie and too stupid to understand that that defeats the point of the whole thing.

    Second, the politicians aren't just requiring a valid photo ID. They are using this as a chance to tack on all kinds of other requirements that they think will skew the elections their way. For example, if you have a military base and a lot of retirees in your district and the retirees vote for you, but not the military folks, you support a "voter ID" law that accepts medicare cards, but not military IDs. If you have a college in your district that you don't want voting, you don't accept student IDs or out of state IDs. If you don't want the urban population to vote, you require a driver's license, but not other types of state issued IDs or passports that people who don't drive might have. If you want to exclude younger people you require that it has their current address and if you want to exclude older people you require that it not have expired. Etc. All told, the requirements they have tacked on in some states will prevent as much as 10% of the legal voters from voting.

    It's just election fraud. Republicans are stupid enough that if somebody tells them they are doing something to fight against "illegals", they don't ask any more questions. So, politicians can do whatever they want when the Republicans are in the majority. They don't have to answer to anybody because their base isn't smart enough to understand stuff like this.
    Certainly taking on may other things to voter ID could be cumbersome but it should also be a matter of pride to vote and to protect the system, just as it is in most every country where people have that fought for privilege. Recall the Iraqi people risking their lives to vote and then proudly holding up their purple stained fingers to show they had done so?

    Whether the problem is many or few the integrity of the system should be protected 100%, and there is no rational argument why this shouldn't be so. That's probably why the debate will continue.

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    Re: Feds to Florida: halt non-citizen voter purge

    [QUOTE]
    Quote Originally Posted by rocket88 View Post
    It wouldn't be a problem for the politican if they preventedx the right people from voting. Lucky for you, the Republicans have already thought of that.
    I don't know why this would be lucky for me so perhaps you can explain the reasoning behind this remark.

    The problem is that there's totally different ways of seeing the problem. Those who are more on the liberal side want to make sure that everybody who can vote gets to vote.
    I think everyone would want that, if they are legally entitled to of course.

    If a small percentage of fraud takes place, that's the price you pay, no system is perfect.
    No system is perfect but that doesn't mean steps shouldn't be taken to make it as secure as possible. This seems like a rather lame excuse.

    The more conservative want to prevent all fraud, and if some people who can legally vote are prevenfrom voting, that's the price you pay, no system is perfect.
    Why is just conservatives who want to prevent fraud? Shouldn't everyone share the same concern? It's hard to believe that there are people who would be indifferent to voter fraud. This is taken very seriously in most countries, apart from those in the third world perhaps.
    Do you ever ask why this is such a big deal to Republicans now? Was there no voter fraud in '04? Xf course there was , but they won.
    It seems natural that voter fraud, whatever the numbers, would be a "big deal" to everyone. If there was clear evidence of voter fraud in the past, as you submit, then there should obviously be steps taken to prevent this in the future. Voter ID would certainly be one way.

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