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Thread: Feds to Florida: halt non-citizen voter purge

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    Re: Feds to Florida: halt non-citizen voter purge

    Quote Originally Posted by AdamT View Post
    That's a nice fairy tale, but that's all it is. In fact the Dems DID try to pass the DREAM Act under Obama, but it was unanimously rejected by Republicans — including several who were cosponsors of the original bill!

    Romney was as anti-immigrant as can be during the primaries (Mr. Self-Deportation) and now, of course, he's trying to shake his Etch-a-Sketch and reverse that damage ... without offering any specifics or even saying whether he would reverse Obama's executive action. Gumby has more spine than Romney.
    WHY did the "dream act" wait untill 5/1/11 to get to the floor? As for Romney, I agree with you, he is a weasle. Hmm...
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    Re: Feds to Florida: halt non-citizen voter purge

    Quote Originally Posted by ttwtt78640 View Post
    WHY did the "dream act" wait untill 5/1/11 to get to the floor? As for Romney, I agree with you, he is a weasle. Hmm...

    I think you might be off by a year - the DREAM Act was introduced in 2010 and passed by the House but filibustered in the Senate by Republicans in Dec 2010
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    Re: Feds to Florida: halt non-citizen voter purge

    Quote Originally Posted by ttwtt78640 View Post
    I am curious how requiring the SAME (valid state issued photo) ID for buying alcohol, tobacco, firearms, ammo, traveling by air, getting hunting/fishing licenses, getting SNAP/welfare benefits, cashing checks or collecting state lottery prizes is NOT seen as an "undue discriminatory burden", ONLY voting seems to be an issue. Hmm...
    The problem in my mind is not the ID requirement per se.

    The problem is, rather, the nature of these states' restrictions and the way they are going at it. Passing laws restricting voting requirements on the very same year that a major election is to take place is really shady. And requiring someone to spend money on an ID just so they can vote is a poll tax, pure and simple.

    I'm willing to accept a compromise where (1) changes in voting regulations do not take effect until one year after they have been signed into law, and (2) those below a certain income level can, with the proper documentation, receive an ID card for free. Have those two safeguards in place, I'm open to the possibility of requiring photo IDs to vote. If not, forget it.
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    Re: Feds to Florida: halt non-citizen voter purge

    Quote Originally Posted by AdamT View Post
    That's a nice fairy tale, but that's all it is. In fact the Dems DID try to pass the DREAM Act under Obama, but it was unanimously rejected by Republicans — including several who were cosponsors of the original bill!

    Romney was as anti-immigrant as can be during the primaries (Mr. Self-Deportation) and now, of course, he's trying to shake his Etch-a-Sketch and reverse that damage ... without offering any specifics or even saying whether he would reverse Obama's executive action. Gumby has more spine than Romney.
    Please...do show us the immigration reform legislation Obama proposed during his term as a senator or that democrats attempted to pass from...well...lets see...2007 to 2011 when they held both bodies of congress. Immigration reform, not tokenism. I get you guys are good at tokenism.

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    Re: Feds to Florida: halt non-citizen voter purge

    Quote Originally Posted by Somerville View Post
    The OTHER guy we may safely assume to be President Obama as Romney has never "occupied the White House", and the statement that he has done nothing on immigration reform " would also cause one to think it is the President that VanceMack is calling the OTHER

    So we have a partisan simply repeating the rightwing mantra that is being used as cover for the hapless Willard.

    Then there is that well known librul biased media reporting on what really happened a couple of years ago


    Readers who bother to read more at the ABC site might found the following 'interesting'


    Who was President from 2001 to 2009? What party did he belong to? Every day we see similar examples of Republican hypocrisy - actions and policies they once supported are now anathema simply because the present President is an advocate.
    you guys really need to get your talking points straight. Just a few posts prior a liberal here pointed out that it was in fact Bush pushing for immigration reform which was soundly defeated. But lets stop running on Bush's record, shall we? Where is Obama's sweeping immigration reform and why did he wait til a few months before the election to suddenly decide it was 'important'? Oh...thats right...just as with his gay marriage announcement...he was just looking to find the time when it was most strategic and advantageous. To him. Because...you know...he 'cares'...

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    Re: Feds to Florida: halt non-citizen voter purge

    Quote Originally Posted by Somerville View Post
    I think you might be off by a year - the DREAM Act was introduced in 2010 and passed by the House but filibustered in the Senate by Republicans in Dec 2010
    That was having the dream act stuffed into a bundled MESS in the defense spending authorization bill, including DADT and other nonsense. I was talking about as a stand alone thing. The dream act, in various forms has been around for a long time, it just never passed. We do NOT need amnesty or "head of line" privileges for some ILLEGAL ALIENS. It makes NO sense to offer "special deals" to those that break the law, and NOT for those that remain in their homelands on the waiting lists. The ENTIRE idea of U.S. immigration law is to allow the U.S. to choose which immigrants are accepted, not to accept whoever sneaks in and simply does not get thrown out fast enough.
    Last edited by ttwtt78640; 06-24-12 at 02:20 PM.
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    Re: Feds to Florida: halt non-citizen voter purge

    Well I read the Colorblind link you posted Karl, and it doesn't pass the sniff test. First, this is not a matter of race or class, but citizenship status and voter eligibility. So the feds should have no interest under the Voting Rights Act. Further, as noted in the article, other states have similar and some the exact same law - all passed and in force without a peep from the DOJ. Texas just happens to be one of the states still being punished for it's past and now must have oversight and permission from the feds to pass their own voting laws. I suspect that will one day soon be challenged in the SCOTUS and struck down.

    Secondly, the reasons given for the inability to get a FREE voter ID are lame at best, unbelievable at worst. Yes, if you read the comments on the article, there are already provisions in the law for FREE state election IDs. I understand there are counties that don't have DMV offices - so make the election IDs available at the government offices that are available in those counties.

    There something else about this that smells. 11% of "hispanics" (I'm guess that's from folks who self-report that way) don't have drivers licenses or state issued ID. No one has said how they access state services, do their banking, rent their place of residence, sign up for telephone and utilities, all without being able to identify themselves.

    The article did mention one of the things holding this group back was the lack of proper paperwork. Sounds like the state and the DOJ just identified a group of illegals. Anyone who immigrated legally will have paperwork by the sheaf, and access to copies if they've lost it all. The ones born here will have a birth certificate or be able to get one from the state. The whole thing reeks of illegitimate excuse.
    Last edited by clownboy; 06-24-12 at 03:18 PM.

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    Re: Feds to Florida: halt non-citizen voter purge

    Quote Originally Posted by VanceMack View Post
    Please...do show us the immigration reform legislation Obama proposed during his term as a senator or that democrats attempted to pass from...well...lets see...2007 to 2011 when they held both bodies of congress. Immigration reform, not tokenism. I get you guys are good at tokenism.
    The DREAM Act is an immigration reform bill, though not comprehensive. I thought Republicans were afraid of big, comprehensive reform bills, like Obamacare? Or does that just apply to health care reform for some reason?

    Given the current makeup of Congress, there is no way in hell that a comprehensive reform bill can pass. Whatever they come up with will be too lenient for Republicans and too harsh for Democrats. The only realistic possibility at this point is to do piecemeal legislation like the Dream Act.
    "The necessaries of life occasion the great expense of the poor. They find it difficult to get food, and the greater part of their little revenue is spent in getting it. The luxuries and vanities of life occasion the principal expense of the rich, and a magnificent house embellishes and sets off to the best advantage all the other luxuries and vanities which they possess. ... It is not very unreasonable that the rich should contribute to the public expense, not only in proportion to their revenue, but something more than in that proportion."

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    Re: Feds to Florida: halt non-citizen voter purge

    Quote Originally Posted by clownboy View Post
    There something else about this that smells. 11% of "hispanics" (I'm guess that's from folks who self-report that way) don't have drivers licenses or state issued ID. No one has said how they access state services, do their banking, rent their place of residence, sign up for telephone and utilities, all without being able to identify themselves.
    DL's and state-issued ID aren't the only forms of ID that can be used for those purposes.

    What smells about all this is that groups that traditionally vote Democratic are being systematically targeted by a variety of means when there is virtually no evidence that we have a meaningful voter fraud problem.
    "The necessaries of life occasion the great expense of the poor. They find it difficult to get food, and the greater part of their little revenue is spent in getting it. The luxuries and vanities of life occasion the principal expense of the rich, and a magnificent house embellishes and sets off to the best advantage all the other luxuries and vanities which they possess. ... It is not very unreasonable that the rich should contribute to the public expense, not only in proportion to their revenue, but something more than in that proportion."

    -- Adam Smith

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    Re: Feds to Florida: halt non-citizen voter purge

    Quote Originally Posted by clownboy, replying to Karl View Post
    I understand there are counties that don't have DMV offices - so make the election IDs available at the government offices that are available in those counties.
    Works for me. Why didn't Texas do something like that?

    Quote Originally Posted by clownboy, replying to Karl View Post
    There something else about this that smells. 11% of "hispanics" (I'm guess that's from folks who self-report that way) don't have drivers licenses or state issued ID. No one has said how they access state services, do their banking, rent their place of residence, sign up for telephone and utilities, all without being able to identify themselves.
    That you don't know how someone does something, that you think they must be doing, means nothing at all. However, using your logic -- and the correct figures --
    Their independent analysis showed that almost 37 percent of Spanish-surnamed voters and close to 17 percent of African American voters lack proper ID as opposed to just 11 percent of white Texans.
    -- then 17% of African American voters are illegals, as are 11% of white voters

    Now given this statistic --
    the poverty rate for Texas Latino Americans and African Americans are 24.8 percent and 23.8 percent respectively, compared to 8.4 percent for white Americans; Latino Americans are 53 percent of all Texans living in poverty, while 16 percent are African American.
    -- we might presume that whites are more likely to have drivers licenses than Hispanics because more whites can afford a car (if you've never owned or driven a car, would you have a drivers license?). But I'll certainly allow that some of the Hispanics without ID may well indeed be illegals; however, Texas should have made more accommodation in their new law for people that may have difficulty getting to an official ID station (as you noted as well). I don't want to see illegals vote, but I don't want states intimidating people or setting up nuisance schemes either (like these last-minute rule changes).

    Quote Originally Posted by clownboy, replying to Karl View Post
    The article did mention one of the things holding this group back was the lack of proper paperwork. Sounds like the state and the DOJ just identified a group of illegals. Anyone who immigrated legally will have paperwork by the sheaf, and access to copies if they've lost it all. The ones born here will have a birth certificate or be able to get one from the state. The whole thing reeks of illegitimate excuse.
    While I do thank you for reading the link (I suspect many don't), I'll have to ask you to reread that section -- by my interpretation they were talking about college students (who I presume would have things like birth certificates at home, at least those that live out of state):
    They collected anecdotes from hundreds of students at Texas HBCUs [Historically Black Colleges and Universities] who stated they didn’t think they’d be able to get a voter ID due to lack of transportation, funds or the right documents.

    DOJ Texas Voter ID Ruling Is No Surprise Given State’s Faulty ‘Colorblind’ Policies - COLORLINES

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