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Thread: Feds to Florida: halt non-citizen voter purge

  1. #271
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    Re: Feds to Florida: halt non-citizen voter purge

    Quote Originally Posted by clownboy View Post
    I applaud that you finally found part of the letter sent to these folks, but your information is incomplete and false by it's deliberate omissions. There are lots of articles about this, and most of them include the quote from Internicola (the veteran himself):



    He obviously didn't need to attend any hearing. In fact, the other story linked to from your thinkprogress link says the same thing, in this case a 50 year old woman - she sent her info in. Thinkprogress omitted info and has made the process of verification seem to be something it's not. You bought into their game.
    You are mistaken. In fact a linked article shows a scan of an actual letter that was sent out. The letter provides no option to mail in proof. The letter states that the recipient must schedule a HEARING where they will have the opportunity to present proof of citizenship, or else they lose their voting privilege.

    letter_black_CROP.jpg
    "The necessaries of life occasion the great expense of the poor. They find it difficult to get food, and the greater part of their little revenue is spent in getting it. The luxuries and vanities of life occasion the principal expense of the rich, and a magnificent house embellishes and sets off to the best advantage all the other luxuries and vanities which they possess. ... It is not very unreasonable that the rich should contribute to the public expense, not only in proportion to their revenue, but something more than in that proportion."

    -- Adam Smith

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    Re: Feds to Florida: halt non-citizen voter purge

    Quote Originally Posted by Deuce View Post
    How about one American citizen being denied his voice by not being allowed to vote in the first place? Or how about one American being told not to vote and being told a lie in order to make sure he doesn't? (i.e. "if you have an unpaid parking ticket you are ineligible to vote, if you vote it's a felony!" or "Your candidate already has this in the bag, no need to go vote")


    "Drowned out by fraudulent votes" is a laugh. The actual percentage of votes being cast fraudulently is quite small. Yes, steps should be taken to ensure an honest election process, but not at the expense of disenfranchising legitimate voters.
    Amazing that all of those "disenfranchised" folks have no trouble at all getting alcohol, tobacco, firearms, ammunition, fishing/hunting licenses, library books, welfare, food stamps or when cashing lotto tickets and checks, that all require that "ever elusive" state issued photo ID, that is ONLY a hardship for voting (darn thing be rights here yeserday, next to my 40 and blunt, where it be on votin' days, I jus don't knows). ;-)
    Last edited by ttwtt78640; 06-11-12 at 06:47 PM.
    “The reasonable man adapts himself to the world: the unreasonable one persists to adapt the world to himself.
    Therefore all progress depends on the unreasonable man.” ― George Bernard Shaw, Man and Superman

  3. #273
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    Re: Feds to Florida: halt non-citizen voter purge

    Congrats Adam T, you just proved him, me and Florida right and the DOJ wrong. The letter clearly outlines everything the must be done and that the State and County are following the guidelines in the link I posted above. Further, it never states you must appear before the board, just that the board will be presented with the evidence.

    All this outrage for nothing. Well, not nothing, lost fraudulant votes that Dems assume will swing their way.
    You, my brothers and sisters, were called to be free. But do not use your freedom to indulge the flesh; rather, serve one another humbly in love.For the entire law is fulfilled in keeping this one command: “Love your neighbor as yourself.”

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    Re: Feds to Florida: halt non-citizen voter purge

    Quote Originally Posted by AdamT View Post
    You are mistaken. In fact a linked article shows a scan of an actual letter that was sent out. The letter provides no option to mail in proof. The letter states that the recipient must schedule a HEARING where they will have the opportunity to present proof of citizenship, or else they lose their voting privilege.

    letter_black_CROP.jpg
    That's simply YOUR story, that conflicts with many others, but your "trusted source" is SO much more reliable than any actual words of experience offered by your OWN initial 91 year old "proof" subject. You just won't quit, ever, no matter what any one says or shows you. If only you are right, then why don't you get on the horn with that poor 91 year old liar, and straighten him out, before he loses his voting rights. Get real!
    “The reasonable man adapts himself to the world: the unreasonable one persists to adapt the world to himself.
    Therefore all progress depends on the unreasonable man.” ― George Bernard Shaw, Man and Superman

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    Re: Feds to Florida: halt non-citizen voter purge

    Quote Originally Posted by ttwtt78640 View Post
    That's simply YOUR story, that conflicts with many others, but your "trusted source" is SO much more reliable than any actual words of experience offered by your OWN initial 91 year old "proof" subject. You just won't quit, ever, no matter what any one says or shows you. If only you are right, then why don't you get on the horn with that poor 91 year old liar, and straighten him out, before he loses his voting rights. Get real!
    Dude, it is a SCAN OF THE ACTUAL FREAKING' LETTER!!

    Perhaps the gentleman did send in some information, but that is clearly not an option that the letter provides. The options presented are:

    1. Admit you're not a citizen and be slagged off the rolls;

    2. Request a hearing to present proof that you are a citizen.

    Period.

    How do we know that a hearing is required?

    Under section 98.075, Florida Statutes, a law which has been duly precleared by the Department of Justice, a supervisor of elections must take the following actions before any person’s name may be removed from the statewide voter registration system:

    • Notify the registered voter of his or her potential ineligibility by certified mail, return receipt requested, including any documentation upon which the potential ineligibility is based;
    • Allow the registered voter 30 days to respond by admitting or denying the accuracy of the information underlying the potential ineligibility;
    Provide the registered voter a hearing, if requested, for the purpose of determining eligibility;
    • If the mailed notice is returned as undeliverable, publish notice in a newspaper of general circulation in the county where the voter was last registered, with an additional 30-day opportunity for the registered voter to resolve the matter;
    • At the conclusion of the notice and hearing process, make a final determination of the voter’s eligibility based on a preponderance of the evidence before the supervisor of elections;
    • Allow for an additional appeal of any determination of ineligibility before a state circuit court.
    "The necessaries of life occasion the great expense of the poor. They find it difficult to get food, and the greater part of their little revenue is spent in getting it. The luxuries and vanities of life occasion the principal expense of the rich, and a magnificent house embellishes and sets off to the best advantage all the other luxuries and vanities which they possess. ... It is not very unreasonable that the rich should contribute to the public expense, not only in proportion to their revenue, but something more than in that proportion."

    -- Adam Smith

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    Re: Feds to Florida: halt non-citizen voter purge

    If you read the letter, if you think the info they have is false, you may request a hearing OR you may return the completed Voter Eligibility Form. Which BOTH people mentioned in the article and it's references say they did.

    Maureen Russo was born in Akron, Ohio. For the last 40 years she’s operated a dog boarding and grooming business — Bobbi’s World Kennels — with her husband in Ft. Lauderdale, Florida. Maureen is 60 years old and has been a registered voter in the state for the last four decades. She regularly votes at the church around the corner from her home.

    Two weeks ago she received a letter from the State of Florida informing her that they had received information that she was not born in this country and, therefore, was ineligible to vote.

    She was given an option to request “an administrative hearing to present evidence” disputing the determination of the State of Florida that she was ineligible to vote. Unless Maureen returned a form requesting such a hearing within 30 days, she was told, it would result in “the removal of your name from the voter registration rolls.”

    She immediately sent off a registered letter to the State with a copy of her passport. She hasn’t heard anything back.
    It would be good to see if Bill Internicola or Maureen Russo are now eligible to vote or if they do have to show up for a hearing first. Until you clear that up, the dodge about transportation is a moot point.
    Last edited by clownboy; 06-11-12 at 07:24 PM.

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    Re: Feds to Florida: halt non-citizen voter purge

    Quote Originally Posted by AdamT View Post
    You are mistaken. In fact a linked article shows a scan of an actual letter that was sent out. The letter provides no option to mail in proof. The letter states that the recipient must schedule a HEARING where they will have the opportunity to present proof of citizenship, or else they lose their voting privilege.

    letter_black_CROP.jpg
    Did you actually read the form?

    The Broward Couny Supervisor of Elections' Office has received information from the State of Florida that you are not a United States citizen, hotwever you are registered to vote.

    If you agree with this information, please complete the enclosed Voter Acceptance or Denial of Eligability Form. If you believe that this information is false, you may request a hearing with the Supervosir of Elections, for the purpose of providing proof that you are a United States citizen.

    The enclosed Voter Eligability Form must be completed and returned to the Supervosor of Elections' Office within thirty (30) days. Failure to submit this form within thirty (30) days may result in the removal of your name from the voter registration rolls. You will no longer be eligable to vote, until you can provide proof that you are a United States citizen.


    I think what we have here is a badly worded memo. But the name of the form itself, Voter Acceptance or Denial of Eligability Form clearly shows that this is for use if you agree or disagree with the information. And with it then later stating that if you do not respond within 30 days you may be removed, this seems to be the case. If people had responded and returned the filled out form, I bet that they would be able to remain on the rolls without a hearing.

    It says nothing like they must schedule a hearing, only that they may do so. The only thing that they must do is return the form.
    War is an ugly thing, but not the ugliest of things. The decayed and degraded state of moral and patriotic feeling which thinks that nothing is worth war is much worse. - John Stuart Mill

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    Re: Feds to Florida: halt non-citizen voter purge

    Quote Originally Posted by Deuce View Post
    How about one American citizen being denied his voice by not being allowed to vote in the first place? Or how about one American being told not to vote and being told a lie in order to make sure he doesn't? (i.e. "if you have an unpaid parking ticket you are ineligible to vote, if you vote it's a felony!" or "Your candidate already has this in the bag, no need to go vote")


    "Drowned out by fraudulent votes" is a laugh. The actual percentage of votes being cast fraudulently is quite small. Yes, steps should be taken to ensure an honest election process, but not at the expense of disenfranchising legitimate voters.
    Voter verification is fine.

    Except when its done in a way that screams shenanigans.

    All of these measures in a year leading up to a major election.

    No significant evidence of fraudulent votes being cast. Certainly not a "crisis".

    Ever notice that this isnt done AFTER elections? When there's plenty of TIME to address any issues that arise for eligible voters?

    More political games than a real concern for clean elections, IMHO.
    Anyone wondering what I'm talking about start here:
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    Re: Feds to Florida: halt non-citizen voter purge

    Could also be the purges conducted by state's SOSes that are done as part of their duty to maintain voter roles, and during non-election years, don't merit the same hubbub in the press.

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    Re: Feds to Florida: halt non-citizen voter purge

    Quote Originally Posted by clownboy View Post
    Could also be the purges conducted by state's SOSes that are done as part of their duty to maintain voter roles, and during non-election years, don't merit the same hubbub in the press.
    Don't you know that denying people the right to vote, and as many times as they like, is fundamentally inhumane and anyone that wishes to follow the law should be persecuted and re-educated in accordance with the progressive/liberal/socialist values? [/sarcasm]
    You, my brothers and sisters, were called to be free. But do not use your freedom to indulge the flesh; rather, serve one another humbly in love.For the entire law is fulfilled in keeping this one command: “Love your neighbor as yourself.”

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