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Thread: Feds to Florida: halt non-citizen voter purge

  1. #261
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    Re: Feds to Florida: halt non-citizen voter purge

    Quote Originally Posted by AdamT View Post
    Somehow that slow, generational change resulted in Goldwater winning several southern states that hadn't gone republican in generations, ie the the civil right act had the immediate effect of forcing a large-scale defection of southern democrats to the republican party (Goldwater opposed the Act).
    Yes, and no.

    Barry Goldwater supported every single Civil Rights Act placed in front of him during his time in the Senate. And he supported the original Senate version of the bill. However, between the original bill and what it had become over the course of the legislative process, it had changed. He had long supported Civil Rights, he simply felt that the newest version of that bill had gone to far, in taking away fundamental rights from states without a set time frame, and without any kind of easy system to get out from under them.

    And remember, the "Deep South" has been among the most Conservative areas of the nation, even when it was held by the "good old boy" Democrats. During this time period however the Democrats made a huge fundamental shift in it's own policies. It went wildly Liberal, and most of the Conservative Democrats (I am talking the individuals, not the politicians) now found themselves at odds with the national party.

    So given a choice between Lyndon Johnson (and his Great Society), it is natural that a lot went to other parties. Bluedog, Dixiecrat, the region started to split itself politically. The "Old Guard" continued to try and fight it out as Democrats, but found themselves loosing elections against younger Republicans with new ideas and without all the Segregation era baggage.

    And this has only become more noticeable in the last decades. As the Democratic party becomes more and more Liberal, on the National level you find more and more Republicans in these offices. But interestingly enough, on the local levels, things are still either evenly split or more Democrat. Of course, a State Assembly person does not have to please a National Party, odds are the national party does not even know they exist.

    This is why you get the interesting politics of a lot of states that are traditionally "Conservative". Idaho, Mississippi, Alabama, Utah, Arizona, states like these produce politicians that most of the nation really can't understand. Even Democrats from these areas normally come off as Conservative as Republicans in most other states. And when I moved from California to Alabama, I noticed just how odd this was. I seemed much more "Radical" then the majority of Democrats in the area. I remember trying to arrange a rally for Darfur, and everybody looked at me like I was nuts. And I was always looked at like I was this crazy California Hippie (complete with long hair and beard), who even as a "Conservative" was to radical for the local politicians.

    Of course, I also admit the local politics were moderately corrupt, with "good ole' boys" who owned large areas of land in one area of town, so refused to grant any kinds of permits to revitalize another area of town, because it might negatively impact their land value.
    War is an ugly thing, but not the ugliest of things. The decayed and degraded state of moral and patriotic feeling which thinks that nothing is worth war is much worse. - John Stuart Mill

  2. #262
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    Re: Feds to Florida: halt non-citizen voter purge

    Quote Originally Posted by AdamT View Post
    Well, you appear to be just making things up, as it appears that these individuals who have been determined to be guilty unti proven innocent must request and attend a hearing in order to get back their voting rights.

    Daily Kos: Florida's voter purge targets 91-year-old decorated WWII vet
    I applaud that you finally found part of the letter sent to these folks, but your information is incomplete and false by it's deliberate omissions. There are lots of articles about this, and most of them include the quote from Internicola (the veteran himself):

    Internicola says he was "flabbergasted."

    "To me, it's like an insult," he says. "They sent me a form to fill out. And I filled out the form and I sent it back to them with a copy of my discharge paper and a copy of my tour of duty in the ETO, which is the European Theater of Operations."
    He obviously didn't need to attend any hearing. In fact, the other story linked to from your thinkprogress link says the same thing, in this case a 50 year old woman - she sent her info in. Thinkprogress omitted info and has made the process of verification seem to be something it's not. You bought into their game.
    Last edited by clownboy; 06-11-12 at 04:43 PM.

  3. #263
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    Re: Feds to Florida: halt non-citizen voter purge

    Quote Originally Posted by Rising Sun View Post
    Both sides seem too partisan to want a completely fair election. In this particular case, my concern isn't bumping off non-eligible voters, in fact I support the idea, but when American citizens are denied their right to vote then I have a cause for concern.
    If one American citizen is denied his voice by having his/her voice drowned out by fraudulent votes, we need to act to correct that.
    "Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passions, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence." - John Adams

  4. #264
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    Re: Feds to Florida: halt non-citizen voter purge

    Quote Originally Posted by Prof. Peabody View Post
    If one American citizen is denied his voice by having his/her voice drowned out by fraudulent votes, we need to act to correct that.
    How about one American citizen being denied his voice by not being allowed to vote in the first place? Or how about one American being told not to vote and being told a lie in order to make sure he doesn't? (i.e. "if you have an unpaid parking ticket you are ineligible to vote, if you vote it's a felony!" or "Your candidate already has this in the bag, no need to go vote")


    "Drowned out by fraudulent votes" is a laugh. The actual percentage of votes being cast fraudulently is quite small. Yes, steps should be taken to ensure an honest election process, but not at the expense of disenfranchising legitimate voters.
    He touched her over her bra and underpants, she says, and guided her hand to touch him over his underwear
    Quote Originally Posted by Lutherf View Post
    We’ll say what? Something like “nothing happened” ... Yeah, we might say something like that.

  5. #265
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    Re: Feds to Florida: halt non-citizen voter purge

    Quote Originally Posted by Deuce View Post
    How about one American citizen being denied his voice by not being allowed to vote in the first place? Or how about one American being told not to vote and being told a lie in order to make sure he doesn't? (i.e. "if you have an unpaid parking ticket you are ineligible to vote, if you vote it's a felony!" or "Your candidate already has this in the bag, no need to go vote")


    "Drowned out by fraudulent votes" is a laugh. The actual percentage of votes being cast fraudulently is quite small. Yes, steps should be taken to ensure an honest election process, but not at the expense of disenfranchising legitimate voters.
    We don't know that because many states have no measures to prevent fraudulent voting and few means to catch those casting them and dont work hard to enforce penalties when they are caught.

  6. #266
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    Re: Feds to Florida: halt non-citizen voter purge

    Quote Originally Posted by Oozlefinch View Post
    I could not give 2 dimes about "minorities". All I care about is seeing those not entitled to vote purged from the roles. Period. I do not care if they are legal resident aliens from Bolivia, illegal aliens from Germany, or convicted pedophiles. If they do not belong on the roles, purge them. Period.

    And that is the reall issue, is it not? Purging people who should not be on the roles? Myself and others are not trying to make this a racial issue, you are.
    Based upon GOP history, the issue is purging people who would vote Democrat.

    Historically, in the South, that has been a racial issue.

    As to the current issue, you'd have to be able to read Rick Scott's mind to know what the real issue is. You could ask him, of course, but do you think you'd get an honest answer?

  7. #267
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    Re: Feds to Florida: halt non-citizen voter purge

    Quote Originally Posted by Grant View Post
    I'm Canadian but am looking forward to voting in US elections.

    Come on down and cast your vote.

  8. #268
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    Re: Feds to Florida: halt non-citizen voter purge

    Quote Originally Posted by Oozlefinch View Post
    And that makes huge news as "disenfrancisement". Meanwhile, huge numbers of military votes are routinely never counted.

    Truth On Target: Military Votes Not Counted 98,000 Lost Military Ballots
    71% of Military Ballots not counted in the 2010 election. [ArthurK]

    This is an outrage [...]
    No, it's false. From your first link:

    It is unclear from the major new sources, whether 98,000 ballots were mailed overseas and are considered “lost” because voters abroad decided not to exercise their vote, or if the 98,000 were “mailed out,” meaning mailed to the U.S. from abroad, and known not to have been received by election officials. From reporting, it appears the ballots are lost. Here’s the exact wording:

    It said that of 441,000 absentee ballots requested by eligible voters living abroad — mainly active-duty and reserve troops — more than 98,000 were “lost” ballots that were mailed out but never received by election officials.
    Clearly the blogger doesn't have a clue (and doesn't know how to use quotes).

    From your second link:

    Looks like ballots aren't making it to the troops, they're not filling out the ones they get or the ballots aren't making it back to the states.
    This guy doesn't know WTF is going on either. However, he at least provides the quote that makes your claim a lie:

    Quote Originally Posted by blogger, quoting an external report
    Most of the states did a good job counting the ballots they actually got back - the overall acceptance rate was more than 94 percent.
    The misunderstood report is here: http://mvpproject.org/wp-content/upl...y_download.pdf

    Quote Originally Posted by Oozlefinch, later View Post
    Well, what would you say if this is your vote? That you know that voting really does not matter, because even if you get your ballot in time to return it, odds are it still will not even be counted?
    Major falsehood, as we see above

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    Re: Feds to Florida: halt non-citizen voter purge

    Quote Originally Posted by AdamT View Post
    Well, you appear to be just making things up, as it appears that these individuals who have been determined to be guilty unti proven innocent must request and attend a hearing in order to get back their voting rights.

    Daily Kos: Florida's voter purge targets 91-year-old decorated WWII vet
    Suprise, suprise, the Daily Kooks lied again: Florida Defends Voter Purge, Accuses DOJ Of Protecting Illegal Voters | TPMMuckraker

    So the truth is:
    The voter gets a letter
    They can respond via mail OR they can request an in person hearing
    If the letter is undeliverable the names are published in the paper to notify them of their need to address the issue
    At the end of the 30 day response period the board reviews each case
    IN ANY CASE, THE VOTER CAN STILL VOTE...I REPEAT...THE VOTER CAN STILL VOTE...EVEN IF THEY HAVE BEEN DENIED...and prove after the election that they had the legal right to vote.
    You, my brothers and sisters, were called to be free. But do not use your freedom to indulge the flesh; rather, serve one another humbly in love.For the entire law is fulfilled in keeping this one command: “Love your neighbor as yourself.”

  10. #270
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    Re: Feds to Florida: halt non-citizen voter purge

    If the state of Florida said that citizens with IDs could collect $500.00, I'd bet good money there'd be a run on IDs.

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