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Thread: Feds to Florida: halt non-citizen voter purge

  1. #221
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    Re: Feds to Florida: halt non-citizen voter purge

    Quote Originally Posted by iguanaman View Post
    What problem? There has never been any data to suggest that voting by non-citizens is happening at all. It's all just an effort to reinstate Jim Crow laws all over the south. It's despicable and very un-American to attempt to supress the vote. I hope you would agree.
    I love that argument. You do everything possible to prevent finding out who actually votes (or signs ballot/recall petitions) yet assert that no evidence or data exists to prove who actually votes. That is nonsense. Is there ANY indication on a state issued photo ID in FL as to who is/is not a citizen, or who is/is not a convicted felon? Is there any indication that poor or minority people suffer from lacking a state issued photo ID required to buy alcohol/tobacco or to cash a check?

    The entire concept of voter registration (actually it is pre-registration) is a bit puzzling to me, except as a list from which to try to get jurors and to force a potential voter to declare a party affiliation to limit their primary election participation, UNLESS that list is checked against the data bases of those that have died, have been convicted ot a felony or are not U.S. citizens. The voter (pre)registration process does serve as a list, of people (names/adresses) that you may SAY that you are, subject to misuse, by any person with access to it, for assisting voter fraud, IFF no positive verification of a state issued photo ID, bearing that person's name/address combination, is required to be shown at the time of voting.

    As of now, we DO have documented cases of people PROVING that they did not vote/sign a petition, yet OFFICIAL records show that they did so. We also have cases of the deceased and convicted felons being able to vote. The ONLY way that is possible, is that someone ELSE (possibly a non-citizen or felon) has used that person's identity to vote/sign a petition in their place; meaning that the system NOW IN PLACE is subject to fraud AND that we have inadequate checks/balances in place to prevent it.

    You constantly want those to prove a negative, that whoever voted as John Q. Voter, was not a citizen or was a convicted felon while having NO WAY to show that if John Q. Voter had died, moved out of the state or simply chose not to vote in that election, that ANYONE with access to his being a registered voter, may simply cast a ballot and attribute that vote to him. In other words, it is not who votes that counts, it is who counts the votes (or has access to voter registration records) that may decide an election.
    Last edited by ttwtt78640; 06-11-12 at 03:01 AM.
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  2. #222
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    Re: Feds to Florida: halt non-citizen voter purge

    Quote Originally Posted by Hatuey View Post
    Voter fraud is not an issue in the US and hasn't been an issue since the beginning of the 20th century.

    /end thread.
    Translation: I win, you loose, nothing else matters because I got nothing else to say.
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  3. #223
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    Re: Feds to Florida: halt non-citizen voter purge

    Quote Originally Posted by iguanaman View Post
    What problem? There has never been any data to suggest that voting by non-citizens is happening at all. It's all just an effort to reinstate Jim Crow laws all over the south. It's despicable and very un-American to attempt to supress the vote. I hope you would agree.
    OK, wait a minute.

    Jim Crowe was to remove the vote from blacks. And I thought the entire idea of this was to remove the vote from Hispanics.

    So which is it now? Please, make up my mind, because I can't figure out where all this is headed.
    War is an ugly thing, but not the ugliest of things. The decayed and degraded state of moral and patriotic feeling which thinks that nothing is worth war is much worse. - John Stuart Mill

  4. #224
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    Re: Feds to Florida: halt non-citizen voter purge

    Quote Originally Posted by teamosil View Post
    Actual voter ID where they just require a valid photo ID I don't have a huge objection to. It would cause more people to be denied the vote who have the legal right to vote than it would prevent frauds. The studies show that about 0.1% of votes (at the very most) cast in a polling place are fraudulent, but 1% of people who are legally allowed to vote lack any valid photo ID. So, it would make the electoral system up to 0.9% less accurate.
    I'll need a reliable source for those studies.

    Quote Originally Posted by teamosil View Post
    But, that's not a huge deal. That isn't a major blow to democracy.
    Quote Originally Posted by teamosil View Post
    What is a huge deal is all these acts of extreme election fraud calling themselves "voter ID" laws that tack on all kinds of other requirements to try to manipulate the results. For example, if you're in a district where the incumbent is disfavored by students, but favored by the elderly, he'll push not to allow student IDs or out of state IDs, but to allow medicare cards. Or, if you're in a district where there is a military base that votes against the incumbent, but the poor vote for the incumbent, you'll allow IDs with out of date addresses (the poor move much more often), but you won't allow military ID or out of state IDs. Etc. With all those manipulations in place, up to 10% of people lack IDs they decide to accept and that is a truly severe blow to democracy. That is enough to make the election results no longer represent the will of the people and to de-legitimize the entire process.
    Far more voter fraud takes place in the vote by mail system. They need to computerize a cross reference system from the DMV, the IRS, addresses and death records. When the typical criteria for fraudulent voters have been met the mail in voter needs to verify their identity.
    Last edited by Prof. Peabody; 06-11-12 at 07:20 AM.
    "Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passions, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence." - John Adams

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    Re: Feds to Florida: halt non-citizen voter purge

    Quote Originally Posted by Hatuey View Post
    I didn't know the living US citizens affected by this were included in those minorities. Or did you just make up a straw man? Well, it fits your MO perfectly so I don't doubt it.
    This is the most intelligent and thoughtful reply you could manage ?
    The real straw man is your accusations that this is some sort of conspiracy to prevent valid voters from voting !
    The question is more important than the answer!

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    Re: Feds to Florida: halt non-citizen voter purge

    Quote Originally Posted by Hatuey View Post
    If that were their only attack on the voting (and more importantly human) rights of minorities you'd be right. Sadly, Southern states had that whole "Jim Crow" issue only a few decades ago. Furthermore, there are still people alive today not much older than myself who remember a time when the South was intimidating not just blacks who tried to vote but killing people coming to ensure they had that right. In general, **** the South. It's got over 150 years of history proving that when it comes to voting, it doesn't really like anybody who isn't white and protestant.
    Those Jim Crow laws were put in place by Democrat legislators that the GOP fought to remove, yet you still believe that it is the (D) that can save the South. It is thinking like yours that has kept the issue as you put it "white and protestant."
    The question is more important than the answer!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Disputatious71 View Post
    Those Jim Crow laws were put in place by Democrat legislators that the GOP fought to remove, yet you still believe that it is the (D) that can save the South. It is thinking like yours that has kept the issue as you put it "white and protestant."
    There is no greater fail than a Republican trying to hang his hat on the achievements of past Republicans who have since abandoned the GOP to join the Democrats, which is the case here. It was the civil rights movement, and Act, that pushed so many racist (pro Jim Crow) southern Democrats into the Republican Party.
    Last edited by AdamT; 06-11-12 at 08:26 AM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by ttwtt78640 View Post
    I love that argument. You do everything possible to prevent finding out who actually votes (or signs ballot/recall petitions) yet assert that no evidence or data exists to prove who actually votes.
    It is simply false to asset that we don't know who votes. As I mentioned above, there have been many inquiries across the country over many years many jurisdictions and they invariably conclude that voter fraud is all but nonexistent.
    "The necessaries of life occasion the great expense of the poor. They find it difficult to get food, and the greater part of their little revenue is spent in getting it. The luxuries and vanities of life occasion the principal expense of the rich, and a magnificent house embellishes and sets off to the best advantage all the other luxuries and vanities which they possess. ... It is not very unreasonable that the rich should contribute to the public expense, not only in proportion to their revenue, but something more than in that proportion."

    -- Adam Smith

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    Re: Feds to Florida: halt non-citizen voter purge

    Quote Originally Posted by AdamT View Post
    There is no greater fail than a Republican trying to hang his hat on the achievements of past Republicans who have since abandoned the GOP to join the Democrats, which is the case here. It was the civil rights movement, and Act, that pushed so many racist (pro Jim Crow) southern Democrats into the Republican Party.
    I am assuming you are either ignorant of or blatantly ignoring the Dixiecrat party proof that proves your statement false.
    The question is more important than the answer!

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    Re: Feds to Florida: halt non-citizen voter purge

    Quote Originally Posted by AdamT View Post
    It is simply false to asset that we don't know who votes. As I mentioned above, there have been many inquiries across the country over many years many jurisdictions and they invariably conclude that voter fraud is all but nonexistent.
    Would this be the same voter fraud that Democrats are claiming in the Wisconsin recall election ?
    Last I heard a Democrat accused a Republican in Wisconsin of locking all the cemetery gates just before the polls opened...
    The question is more important than the answer!

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