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Thread: Feds to Florida: halt non-citizen voter purge

  1. #201
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    Re: Feds to Florida: halt non-citizen voter purge

    Quote Originally Posted by American View Post
    waaaa
    The thing where the right accuses the left of wanting slack immigration policies just to get new voters is idiotic. It just doesn't line up with the actual timeline at all. Just a few years ago both the Republicans and the Democrats had essentially the same immigration policy. And, the Republicans got decent support from Hispanics. Since then the Republicans launched a massive series of totally unprovoked attacks on Hispanics in general that were unrelated to immigration. The bans on cultural studies courses, racist attacks on Sotomayor by Republican senators, English as a national language, embracing racial profiling, etc. By doing all that, the Republicans moved the Hispanic voters into the Democrats' column, not some change in the Democrats' position on immigration. The Democrats didn't change their position on immigration.
    Total tax rates- People living in poverty: 16.2%. The median American: 27%. Working people who make over $140k/year: 31%. The top 1%: 30%. Super rich investors: around 15%. Help the democrats retake the house.

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    Re: Feds to Florida: halt non-citizen voter purge

    Quote Originally Posted by teamosil View Post
    The thing where the right accuses the left of wanting slack immigration policies just to get new voters is idiotic. It just doesn't line up with the actual timeline at all. Just a few years ago both the Republicans and the Democrats had essentially the same immigration policy. And, the Republicans got decent support from Hispanics. Since then the Republicans launched a massive series of totally unprovoked attacks on Hispanics in general that were unrelated to immigration. The bans on cultural studies courses, racist attacks on Sotomayor by Republican senators, English as a national language, embracing racial profiling, etc. By doing all that, the Republicans moved the Hispanic voters into the Democrats' column, not some change in the Democrats' position on immigration. The Democrats didn't change their position on immigration.
    And too, these aren't exactly uncharted waters. The Bush DOJ launched a major campaign to stamp out supposed voter fraud, and they basically came up with nothing. Every time there's a closely contested election they do a recount that involves checking the voter rolls. Invariably they discover that voter fraud is incredibly rare, and when it does happen it almost always involves shenanigans by poll workers or other back-office staffers.

    So what's the more likely scenario? Are Democrats countenancing election fraud to pick up an additional ... what ... 10 - 15 votes in Florida? Or are Republicans pushing these laws in order to potentially pare the rolls of hundreds of thousands of Democratic voters across the country? Hmmm....
    "The necessaries of life occasion the great expense of the poor. They find it difficult to get food, and the greater part of their little revenue is spent in getting it. The luxuries and vanities of life occasion the principal expense of the rich, and a magnificent house embellishes and sets off to the best advantage all the other luxuries and vanities which they possess. ... It is not very unreasonable that the rich should contribute to the public expense, not only in proportion to their revenue, but something more than in that proportion."

    -- Adam Smith

  3. #203
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    Re: Feds to Florida: halt non-citizen voter purge

    Quote Originally Posted by Phys251 View Post
    Oh no. I'm not going to casually dismiss the race issue. YOUR side played the race card. YOUR side singled out two ethnicities (African-Americans being the other) that overwhelmingly voted Democratic. YOUR side needs to explain how this is any different than the Southern Strategy and other racist platforms in your past. This is all on YOU (plural).
    "My side"?

    Nice try to flip it, total fail though. Ine issue is the attempt to prevent people who are legally entitled to vote, and should have every protection to allow them to vote.

    The other is an attempt to allow people who are not entitled to vote, and they should be prevented from voting.

    So unless you are claiming that somehow aliens have some kind of right to vote, this is a fail.
    War is an ugly thing, but not the ugliest of things. The decayed and degraded state of moral and patriotic feeling which thinks that nothing is worth war is much worse. - John Stuart Mill

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    Re: Feds to Florida: halt non-citizen voter purge

    Quote Originally Posted by Hatuey View Post
    If most followed the modern conservative standards for racism, we'd believe the civil war wasn't about slavery, racial discrimination is a "states right" and the civil rights act of 1964 is a violation of property rights.
    Nice try.

    Now try for some facts. Which Party voted to pass the Civil Rights Act of 1964, by 15% or more over the other party? I will give you one guess, and it was not the Democrats.

    Once again, race card fail.
    War is an ugly thing, but not the ugliest of things. The decayed and degraded state of moral and patriotic feeling which thinks that nothing is worth war is much worse. - John Stuart Mill

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    Re: Feds to Florida: halt non-citizen voter purge

    Quote Originally Posted by Phys251 View Post
    Do you believe, then, that Hispanics are lazy?
    Oh yes, certainly. After all, my wife is at work at this time, doing her usual 7pm-7am shift.
    War is an ugly thing, but not the ugliest of things. The decayed and degraded state of moral and patriotic feeling which thinks that nothing is worth war is much worse. - John Stuart Mill

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    Re: Feds to Florida: halt non-citizen voter purge

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    Let's not forget the thousands (if needed) of absentee ballots riding around in former ACORN, (who knows what they call themselves now) trunks, just waiting for some stooge, George Soros funded, SOS, liberal/progressive to pop up with the old 'hey, just found these ballots to count'.....

    Just like with Al Franken.


    j-mac
    And that makes huge news as "disenfrancisement".

    Meanwhile, huge numbers of military votes are routinely never counted.

    Truth On Target: Military Votes Not Counted 98,000 Lost Military Ballots
    71% of Military Ballots not counted in the 2010 election. [ArthurK]

    This is an outrage, but you certainly do not hear people like me crying crocodile tears over it. In fact, one news item that most people probably never heard about a week or so back:

    Agreement Reached to Protect Voting Rights of Military & Overseas Californians | KSEE 24 News - Central Valley's News Station: Fresno-Visalia - News, Sports, Weather | Local News

    On 29 May, the Justice Department signed an agreement with California over military ballots.

    The agreement was filed at the same time as a lawsuit brought under the Uniformed and Overseas Citizens Absentee Voting Act (UOCAVA). The Justice Department filed suit in response to the state’s failure to send absentee ballots to thousands of California’s eligible military and overseas voters for the June 5, 2012, federal primary election at least 45 days prior to the election, as required by UOCAVA. The complaint also alleges that the state failed to ensure that ballots were sent by the voters’ preferred method of transmission (by mail or electronically), as required by federal law.

    Which is just wonderful, considering the primary was 5 June. By the time this agreement was reached, it was far to late for any out of state military to vote. This is nothing new, this has gone on for decades, but nobody cared. I know that when I was in the military and registered to vote in California, never once did I ever get my absentee ballot packet on time. I remember one time in particular, when I got my ballot package for the 1988 Presidential Election. In May 1989.

    It is things like this that make me really wonder at people that are getting all upset about the "rights" of people who are not even entitled to vote. How about giving up some of that outrage to US citizens who are serving in the military? People who are serving for all of you, and are routinely denied their right to vote because of beauro-rats who do not want their vote counted?
    War is an ugly thing, but not the ugliest of things. The decayed and degraded state of moral and patriotic feeling which thinks that nothing is worth war is much worse. - John Stuart Mill

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    Re: Feds to Florida: halt non-citizen voter purge

    Quote Originally Posted by Hatuey View Post
    I didn't know the living US citizens affected by this were included in those minorities. Or did you just make up a straw man? Well, it fits your MO perfectly so I don't doubt it.
    I could not give 2 dimes about "minorities". All I care about is seeing those not entitled to vote purged from the roles. Period. I do not care if they are legal resident aliens from Bolivia, illegal aliens from Germany, or convicted pedophiles. If they do not belong on the roles, purge them. Period.

    And that is the reall issue, is it not? Purging people who should not be on the roles? Myself and others are not trying to make this a racial issue, you are.
    War is an ugly thing, but not the ugliest of things. The decayed and degraded state of moral and patriotic feeling which thinks that nothing is worth war is much worse. - John Stuart Mill

  8. #208
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    Re: Feds to Florida: halt non-citizen voter purge

    Quote Originally Posted by Oozlefinch View Post
    Nice try.

    Now try for some facts. Which Party voted to pass the Civil Rights Act of 1964, by 15% or more over the other party? I will give you one guess, and it was not the Democrats.

    Once again, race card fail.
    Be wary of trying to equate liberals with Democrats, and conservatives with Republicans, especially when it comes to the parties of the 1950s and 60s. The split was along north-south lines rather than by party. I'm sure you're familiar with these numbers now, but just to refresh our memories, from wikipedia:

    The original House version:

    Southern Democrats: 7–87 (7–93%)
    Southern Republicans: 0–10 (0–100%)

    Northern Democrats: 145–9 (94–6%)
    Northern Republicans: 138–24 (85–15%)

    The Senate version:

    Southern Democrats: 1–20 (5–95%)
    Southern Republicans: 0–1 (0–100%)
    Northern Democrats: 45–1 (98–2%)
    Northern Republicans: 27–5 (84–16%)
    So if you see that if we split the analysis along regional lines, Northern Democrats were, percentage-wise, more supportive of the bill than Northern Republicans, and Southern Republicans consistently more against the bill than Southern Dems.
    Last edited by StillBallin75; 06-11-12 at 01:30 AM.
    Nobody who wins a war indulges in a bifurcated definition of victory. War is a political act; victory and defeat have meaning only in political terms. A country incapable of achieving its political objectives at an acceptable cost is losing the war, regardless of battlefield events.

    Bifurcating victory (e.g. winning militarily, losing politically) is a useful salve for defeated armies. The "stab in the back" narrative helped take the sting out of failure for German generals after WWI and their American counterparts after Vietnam.

    All the same, it's nonsense. To paraphrase Vince Lombardi, show me a political loser, and I'll show you a loser.
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    Re: Feds to Florida: halt non-citizen voter purge

    Quote Originally Posted by Thrilla View Post
    the issue of voter purges aside for a second...

    I think the issue of the fed still having control over some of the southern states elections has got to stop... I think 135 years is a long enough punishment for their part in the Civil War.
    Well, it is not just "Southern States". Some of the states covered are also Arizona, Alaska, and parts of California, New York, South Dakota, Michigan, and New Hampshire.

    However, West Virginia and Maryland is not covered, nor is Tennessee. And only parts of Florida (only 5 counties) and North Carolina are covered by the Voting Rights Act of 1965.

    I think most of the law should stand. But that states and counties still covered by this law should be able to be given a way to region the rest of the nation. Only a few of the areas first placed under this law have ever been able to get themselves removed from this.
    War is an ugly thing, but not the ugliest of things. The decayed and degraded state of moral and patriotic feeling which thinks that nothing is worth war is much worse. - John Stuart Mill

  10. #210
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    Re: Feds to Florida: halt non-citizen voter purge

    Quote Originally Posted by teamosil View Post
    The thing where the right accuses the left of wanting slack immigration policies just to get new voters is idiotic.
    No, that is not true.

    Most of us are aware that a lot of Democrats want slack immigration policies so that they will have another class of minorities to oppress. After all, who else is going to clean the dishes at the posh Liberal eating establishments, and mow the lawns of their McMansions? Since the Democrats no longer have slaves, having lots of illegal immigrants is the next best thing. No more standing over them with a lash, just let them in, and threaten them with going along with them or getting deported.
    War is an ugly thing, but not the ugliest of things. The decayed and degraded state of moral and patriotic feeling which thinks that nothing is worth war is much worse. - John Stuart Mill

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