Feds to Florida: halt non-citizen voter purge

jambalaya said:

And this has what to do with this thread? This only means we apply the law reasonably not that we completely ignore a law because we might be wrong once. Adams is expressing a sentiment not suggesting that we don't investigate wrong doing.

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But he's a god Founding Father! Therefore anything he says is true and right and must be listened to!

In all seriousness, that comment is HIGHLY relevant here. If you're going to deify the Founding Fathers, you can't just pick and choose what they said. You know, kind of like how conservative Christians pick and choose what parts of the Bible they preach.

Oozlefinch said:

This is not a court of law here. It is an administrative procedure.

And this is being done with plenty of time to have it handled administratively prior to the election. Heck, if you are one of the individuals, you just fill out the little form and mail it back to them. There, ain't that simple!

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Neat. While we're at it, let's mail a bunch of traffic tickets out to people. All they have to do is come to come to court and contest it, and the charges may be dropped. Maybe.

I thought the Tea Party was all about freedom. I must have missed the "Whites Only" sign they slapped on that freedom.

I just don't get this entire thing. The state has a question about eligability, so mails the person a form saying they need to write back or they may loose their voting privlidge. They are not removing it, and they are giving the individual ample time to clear this up before the election.

This is only a big deal because one of the parties think it is a big deal. They are not threatening to notify the INS, they are not threatening to arrest the people (even if they did violate Federal laws), the worst they can do is suspend their voting privlidges until it is cleared up.

So what is the big freaking deal here? Is it so much freaking work to take the letter, fill it out, and send it back? Are we becomming so lazy that being asked to verify who you are (because it certainly is not done when they accept your registration card) is now being pushed as a return to Jim Crowe.

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Let's see, shall we play this game? Hmm...to play or not...to post facts or not...facts. They'll just get dismissed, because in The Land of the Far Right, facts aren't as important as ideology. It really doesn't matter to them that REPUBLICAN election officials are standing up to their corrupt governor...nah, they must be defecting or something. Elected officials acting impartially? What the heck are they trying to do, have a fair election??

But, okay. Maybe I'm wrong. Isn't voter fraud alarmingly common? Take the case of the Missouri and Kansas elections in 2000 and 2002, when hundreds of people were known to have crossed state lines and vote twice. ...wait, only 0.0003% of voters actually did this. But Georgia! 5,412 dead people voted in Georgia in 2000...uh, actually 5,411 were alive and well. And remember the year 2000, when all those "felons" were purged? Well at least they caught 5,643 of them in the process...actually, a bunch of those were wrong, too. Washington state! OK there's a liberal bastion that surely loves voter fraud. Heck, they let 1,668 illegal immigrants vote in 2005...oh wait, no they didn't.

And I could go on and on. Contrary to popular mythology, voter fraud is EXTREMELY rare. But these are facts that I have used to make my case. I do not expect facts to go over very well.

How about ignoring our statement, and verifying yours?

teamosil said:

Yeah. Florida Republicans just accidentally purged tens of thousands of minorities from the voting registrar for no reason. Aw shucks! Well mistakes happen, eh?

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Come on, "tens of thousands"? What, 20,000 voters purges? 30,000 voters purged?

Got a single verifyable reference for those numbers?

In 2000 the rolls were purged, 65,776 were removed. 57,746 were convicted felons, 8,000 were erroneous. And those were collected and purged at the instruction of the Florida Secretary of State.

You may have heard of her, Katherine Harris, a Democrat.

So there is the result of one purge. Got any facts to back up your claim?

Oozlefinch said:

How about ignoring our statement, and verifying yours?



Come on, "tens of thousands"? What, 20,000 voters purges? 30,000 voters purged?

Got a single verifyable reference for those numbers?

In 2000 the rolls were purged, 65,776 were removed. 57,746 were convicted felons, 8,000 were erroneous. And those were collected and purged at the instruction of the Florida Secretary of State.

You may have heard of her, Katherine Harris, a Democrat.

So there is the result of one purge. Got any facts to back up your claim?

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Katherine Harris a Democrat?! :2rofll:

Harris makes Bachman look like a bleeding heart liberal. And sane.

Speaking of absurd twists:

When Florida Gov. Rick Scott went to vote in 2006, was surprised to hear that, all evidence to the contrary, he was dead, according to a report.

The Republican governor was told the voter rolls listed him as dead, and therefore he wasn’t eligible to cast a ballot, the Miami Herald reported Friday.


Read more: Florida said Gov. Rick Scott was dead voter, says report - Mackenzie Weinger - POLITICO.com

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Oozlefinch said:

How about ignoring our statement, and verifying yours?

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I posted the links pages ago already. It's stunning to me that you were not already aware of this incident. How can that be? It was a massive news story for a long time on all legitimate news sources. You must be getting your news exclusively from some extraordinarily distorted sources.

Oozlefinch said:

Katherine Harris, a Democrat

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zomg

Oozlefinch said:

Actually, most of us are trying to insrtruct you in things like logic and cognitive thinking.

And we seem to be failing badly.

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Hmm. Should I pull a Mitt Romney and delete the first sentence, leaving only the second?

They are both legal citizens & qualified to vote. That is the premise. eace
These things should be done on off years, when folks have plenty of time to get their **** together.

vendur said:

You forgot(I know it kinda debnks your whole bogus premise):
5. They both are not democrats

6. The both are not hispanic,

The sky is falling, the sky is falling!

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AdamT said:

Katherine Harris a Democrat?! :2rofll:

Harris makes Bachman look like a bleeding heart liberal. And sane.

Speaking of absurd twists:

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Nobody makes Michele Bachmann look sane. Not even the Unabomber.

I'm not opposed to voter/work ID, only the time frame, make it be for 2016, or even 2014 give people plenty of time, not pulling the crap out their butts six months before an election. eace

Rising Sun said:

At least it would be fair instead of targeting specific American citizen groups. Voter ID is better. There are problems with voter ID, but as long as the money was provided to fix those problems, it would be fair.

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AdamT said:

Katherine Harris a Democrat?! :2rofll:

Harris makes Bachman look like a bleeding heart liberal. And sane.

Speaking of absurd twists:

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Oh dear Katherine! Here's a picture from her failed run for Congress in 2004


photo by Armando Solares, Sarasota Herald Tribune


and another from the same campaign, notice that her stirrup's not adjusted properly

So far, Florida has flagged 2,700 potential noncitizen voters and sent the list to county elections supervisors, who have found the data and methodology to be flawed and problematic. The list of potential noncitizen voters – many of whom have turned out to be lawful citizens and voters – disproportionately hits minorities, especially Hispanics.

I love it when OPs answer their own questions.

jpevans said:

I'm not opposed to voter/work ID, only the time frame, make it be for 2016, or even 2014 give people plenty of time, not pulling the crap out their butts six months before an election. eace

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Right, but that's the point. They won't care in 2014.

teamosil said:

What are you talking about kiddo?



You don't seem to be following the conversation. The 2000 purge was when Florida announced that they were going to purge felons, but the records people only came up with a small number of actual felons. The Republicans were not satisfied, so they hired an outside company to find more names. That company initially confirmed what the state records people said- that there were hardly any actual ex felons registered. But then the state threatened to rescind the contract if they didn't find more. So, they decided to flag everybody who had the same name as a felon for removal even if none of the other information about them matched. That got them up to about 8,000 names. But the Republicans still were not satisfied and they demanded that the company use "broader criteria". So then the company flagged all of the Florida voters who even had a similar name to a felon. So, if there was an ex felon named Mary Johns they would also exclude Mary Johnson and Marion Johns. That's how they got more than 100,000 names to expunge. Most of them were minorities and almost all of them were legal voters.

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Funny, PolitiFact has the number at 1,100. You come in with the wild number of 100K....Wonder why?....


j-mac

j-mac said:

Funny, PolitiFact has the number at 1,100. You come in with the wild number of 100K....Wonder why?....

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LOL. Why don't you read the whole politifact article instead of just the headline? Fail.

teamosil said:

LOL. Why don't you read the whole politifact article instead of just the headline? Fail.

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Oh, I read it. did you?

Nelson precisely cites a Palm Beach Post analysis that put the total number of people wrongfully dropped from the voter rolls in 2000 at about 1,100.

We rate his statement True.

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j-mac

j-mac said:

Oh, I read it. did you?

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Kiddo. Even after I clued you in that you had missed something, you still didn't read the whole article? What gives?

Somerville said:

Oh dear Katherine! Here's a picture from her failed run for Congress in 2004

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Katherine Harris was reelected to Congress in 2004. Massive liberal fail with you.

Eighty Deuce said:

Katherine Harris was reelected to Congress in 2004. Massive liberal fail with you.

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True, it was actually 2006 when she was slaughtered in one of the most comical Senate runs in recent memory.

Eighty Deuce said:

Katherine Harris was reelected to Congress in 2004. Massive liberal fail with you.

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Oh darn! I was off by two years! You're right - it was a "Massive liberal fail" :roll:


She was such a fine politician too.

We aren’t surprised to hear that Harris covets a Versailles of her very own: nothing less would befit a former Secretary of State (nevermind that it was for the state of Florida, Harris justified travel to foreign countries by explaining that her job as secretary of state demanded it).

Lately, though, Harris has steered far clear of politics. We hear she often attends charity fundraisers in the Sarasota area, but doesn’t engage in politics. Her disastrous 2006 Senate campaign might have soured the game for her altogether.

During that run, Harris lost badly to incumbent Democrat Sen. Bill Nelson. The messy campaign included money problems, which she promised to solve by donating $10 million of her own money — which never materialized — , high-profile staff turnover, and revelations that she once ate a $2,800 dinner at Citronelle with a defense lobbyist later convicted of bribing a public official.

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check out the "beach cottage" she is having built in Sarasota at the link

a “French inspired mini-palace,” and it’s reportedly as large as 23,000 square feet (18,000 of which are air-conditioned) — that’s seven times larger than the White House residential quarters, though only twice as big as the beachfront home GOP presidential candidate Mitt Romney is planning.

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Politifact piece noted in a couple of earlier posts

Politifact rates Sen Nelson statement True

from the Politifact article

2000
As part of their 1998 elections reforms, state lawmakers told the Department of State to remove felons and other ineligible voters from the rolls after thousands of corrupt votes, including 100 votes by felons, were cast in a Miami mayoral election.

The agency hired Boca Raton-based DTS Technologies, a subsidiary of ChoicePoint in Atlanta, for about $4 million to produce a list of probable and possible felons before the election. (Unlike most states, in Florida a felon’s civil rights are not restored unless he or she is granted clemency by the governor and Cabinet.)

The company warned the state that many people on the list would not be felons, but officials wanted DTS to use broad parameters -- that meant more felons off the rolls.

People whose names appeared on the list of more than 50,000 names had to prove their innocence or automatically be dropped from the rolls within several weeks of receiving written notice. Twenty counties ignored the state’s directive because they found the data unreliable, including the Madison County elections supervisor, who found her own name among suspected felon voters.

News organizations unearthed numerous accounts of law-abiding citizens turned away at the polls because they could not prove their innocence. Several thousand people appealed to the Florida Department of Law Enforcement, and half were found to not be felons.

The precise damage is pretty hard to calculate.

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I think the bolded sentences are the ones that are relevant to the discussion

teamosil said:

Kiddo. Even after I clued you in that you had missed something, you still didn't read the whole article? What gives?

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Oh but I did. Tell me what part would you like addressed? I have it on the other tab as I type.


j-mac

Somerville said:

Politifact piece noted in a couple of earlier posts

Politifact rates Sen Nelson statement True

from the Politifact article
I think the bolded sentences are the ones that are relevant to the discussion

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Oh YOU think that YOUR highlighted focus is what is relevant eh, YOUR focus....Hmmm...Funny you didn't bother to keep reading..

"I’ve seen numbers all over the map," said Myrna Perez, senior counsel in the democracy program at the Brennan Center for Justice, which is investigating the purge ordered by Scott.

Nelson’s figure comes from a 2001 Palm Beach Post investigation, the crux of which asserts at least 1,100 eligible voters were wrongly purged before the 2000 election -- "the collateral damage from an aggressive and ill-conceived state plan to prevent felons from voting."

The Post’s count included at least 108 citizens who were cleared after the election and 996 people who committed felonies in other states (they were supposed to retain their civil rights even in Florida).

Other tallies put the number of bad targets 11 or 20 times higher.

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So the numbers are all over the map, and for a reason if you ask me....Look at team's number of 100K....My Goodness. How can any of you libs/progressives/socialists be taken seriously when the lies are so easy to see?

j-mac

Yeah, I DO think that MY highlighted focus is what is relevant to the matter being discussed .... and yes, I did read all of the piece.

I noted parts of the article that I thought you glossed over, notably the bit about twenty county supervisors refusing to use the list of "felons" in addition to the problem associated with the state demanding the company use "broader criteria"


"So the numbers are all over the map" .... Yeah funny that, because you chose to use the absolute lowest number and refuse to accept the validity of other estimates and then proceed to call another person a "liar"

Somerville said:

Yeah, I DO think that MY highlighted focus is what is relevant to the matter being discussed .... and yes, I did read all of the piece.

I noted parts of the article that I thought you glossed over, notably the bit about twenty county supervisors refusing to use the list of "felons" in addition to the problem associated with the state demanding the company use "broader criteria"


"So the numbers are all over the map" .... Yeah funny that, because you chose to use the absolute lowest number and refuse to accept the validity of other estimates and then proceed to call another person a "liar"

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So Sen. Nelson, and the Palm Beach Post are lying?


j-mac

Eighty Deuce said:

Katherine Harris was reelected to Congress in 2004. Massive liberal fail with you.

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And calling her a Democrat was what....? Massive Con fail.

j-mac said:

Oh YOU think that YOUR highlighted focus is what is relevant eh, YOUR focus....Hmmm...Funny you didn't bother to keep reading..



So the numbers are all over the map, and for a reason if you ask me....Look at team's number of 100K....My Goodness. How can any of you libs/progressives/socialists be taken seriously when the lies are so easy to see?

j-mac

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Did you read it? 1,100 people were wrongly purged. You don't think that's a problem? Maybe even 11-20 times higher doesn't strike you as wrong?

It says that people in this purge shouldn't be purged. Which is what us "libs" have been saying is the problem. You don't seem to have a problem with American citizens being wrongly disenfranchised, why is that?