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Thread: Feds to Florida: halt non-citizen voter purge

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    Re: Feds to Florida: halt non-citizen voter purge

    Quote Originally Posted by AdamT View Post
    Scott's approval rating is down to 31%. 56% disapprove.
    Could you show why this is? Cite the polls you are quoting? Breakdown the demographics, and internals of the polls leading you to your decision for us? Or are we supposed to take your word that it is because of this?

    His voter suppression campaign is opposed by both Democrats and Republicans in the state.
    My guess is that you may have a RHINO or two that are really more demo light than they are conservative that don't want non eligible voters purged from the rolls, most likely because they think, and act like liberal/progressives in their own elections.

    Any American that believes in our system should welcome scrutiny of eligibility.


    Butt hay -- he has lots of business experience!!
    What does that have to do with this action? Why not drop the hack crap.


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    Re: Feds to Florida: halt non-citizen voter purge

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    Could you show why this is? Cite the polls you are quoting? Breakdown the demographics, and internals of the polls leading you to your decision for us? Or are we supposed to take your word that it is because of this?
    Here's the poll. I'll let you do what conservatives always do: deny the validity of polls they don't like while swearing by the results of polls they do like.

    My guess is that you may have a RHINO or two
    Again -- what conservatives always do: accuse those they disagree with of being illegitimate. In this case there are 30 Republican elections supervisors who have raised their middle fingers to Scott's voter purge.

    What does that have to do with this action? Why not drop the hack crap.
    Pretty obvious, isn't it? Conservatives big theme this year is the importance of business experience. No one has more business experience than Scott, and he is doing a crap job.
    "The necessaries of life occasion the great expense of the poor. They find it difficult to get food, and the greater part of their little revenue is spent in getting it. The luxuries and vanities of life occasion the principal expense of the rich, and a magnificent house embellishes and sets off to the best advantage all the other luxuries and vanities which they possess. ... It is not very unreasonable that the rich should contribute to the public expense, not only in proportion to their revenue, but something more than in that proportion."

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    Re: Feds to Florida: halt non-citizen voter purge

    Quote Originally Posted by Prof. Peabody View Post
    So you'd be in favor of voter ID to weed them out?
    Actual voter ID where they just require a valid photo ID I don't have a huge objection to. It would cause more people to be denied the vote who have the legal right to vote than it would prevent frauds. The studies show that about 0.1% of votes (at the very most) cast in a polling place are fraudulent, but 1% of people who are legally allowed to vote lack any valid photo ID. So, it would make the electoral system up to 0.9% less accurate.

    But, that's not a huge deal. That isn't a major blow to democracy.

    What is a huge deal is all these acts of extreme election fraud calling themselves "voter ID" laws that tack on all kinds of other requirements to try to manipulate the results. For example, if you're in a district where the incumbent is disfavored by students, but favored by the elderly, he'll push not to allow student IDs or out of state IDs, but to allow medicare cards. Or, if you're in a district where there is a military base that votes against the incumbent, but the poor vote for the incumbent, you'll allow IDs with out of date addresses (the poor move much more often), but you won't allow military ID or out of state IDs. Etc. With all those manipulations in place, up to 10% of people lack IDs they decide to accept and that is a truly severe blow to democracy. That is enough to make the election results no longer represent the will of the people and to de-legitimize the entire process.
    Total tax rates- People living in poverty: 16.2%. The median American: 27%. Working people who make over $140k/year: 31%. The top 1%: 30%. Super rich investors: around 15%. Help the democrats retake the house.

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    Re: Feds to Florida: halt non-citizen voter purge

    Quote Originally Posted by AdamT View Post
    Here's the poll.
    Where? Where's the poll?

    I'll let you do what conservatives always do: deny the validity of polls they don't like while swearing by the results of polls they do like.

    Surely you don't expect that people just take the headline, and narrative of any particular poll, and not look at internals, and make up of those polled do you?

    Again -- what conservatives always do: accuse those they disagree with of being illegitimate. In this case there are 30 Republican elections supervisors who have raised their middle fingers to Scott's voter purge.
    How so? Are they refusing to cooperate? Are they showing empirically that the scrutiny is unwarranted? How are they flipping the bird? See, you shouldn't be able to just say stuff unchallanged Adam. Show me how.

    Pretty obvious, isn't it? Conservatives big theme this year is the importance of business experience. No one has more business experience than Scott, and he is doing a crap job.

    Crap Job? He has created over 100K jobs, outpacing national growth. I'd say that is pretty good for a governor with an opposition legislation.


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    Re: Feds to Florida: halt non-citizen voter purge

    Quote Originally Posted by AdamT View Post
    Here's the poll.
    Where? Where's the poll?

    I'll let you do what conservatives always do: deny the validity of polls they don't like while swearing by the results of polls they do like.

    Surely you don't expect that people just take the headline, and narrative of any particular poll, and not look at internals, and make up of those polled do you?

    Again -- what conservatives always do: accuse those they disagree with of being illegitimate. In this case there are 30 Republican elections supervisors who have raised their middle fingers to Scott's voter purge.
    How so? Are they refusing to cooperate? Are they showing empirically that the scrutiny is unwarranted? How are they flipping the bird? See, you shouldn't be able to just say stuff unchallanged Adam. Show me how.

    Pretty obvious, isn't it? Conservatives big theme this year is the importance of business experience. No one has more business experience than Scott, and he is doing a crap job.

    Crap Job? He has created over 100K jobs, outpacing national growth. I'd say that is pretty good for a governor with an opposition legislation.


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    Re: Feds to Florida: halt non-citizen voter purge

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    Where? Where's the poll?
    Oops, forgot the link: http://miamiherald.typepad.com/files...fl_0608121.pdf

    Surely you don't expect that people just take the headline, and narrative of any particular poll, and not look at internals, and make up of those polled do you?
    I expect people to take every poll with a grain of salt -- but not to attack only polls that don't come out the way they want.

    How so? Are they refusing to cooperate? Are they showing empirically that the scrutiny is unwarranted? How are they flipping the bird? See, you shouldn't be able to just say stuff unchallanged Adam. Show me how.
    All 67 state elections supervisors, including 30 Republicans, have told Scott to go pound sand. They have all told him that they are canceling the voter purge despite his demand that it continue.

    Crap Job? He has created over 100K jobs, outpacing national growth. I'd say that is pretty good for a governor with an opposition legislation.
    Florida actually LOST jobs last month. And it would take a miracle for Scott to make good on his jobs promise. PolitiFact Florida | Scott-O-Meter: Create over 700,000 jobs
    "The necessaries of life occasion the great expense of the poor. They find it difficult to get food, and the greater part of their little revenue is spent in getting it. The luxuries and vanities of life occasion the principal expense of the rich, and a magnificent house embellishes and sets off to the best advantage all the other luxuries and vanities which they possess. ... It is not very unreasonable that the rich should contribute to the public expense, not only in proportion to their revenue, but something more than in that proportion."

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    Re: Feds to Florida: halt non-citizen voter purge

    Did anyone read the article?

    To spot noncitizens, though, the state began comparing voter rolls with a Department of Highway Safety and Motor Vehicle database that contains some citizenship information that the agency collects when people get a state ID such as a driver’s license.

    But the citizenship data in many cases is out of date. That is, many people become citizens after they get their ID and then register to vote. But the highway safety database isn’t updated.

    As a result, the state has performed its own checking and double-checking and winnowed down a pool of 180,000 potential noncitizens to a list of about 2,700. It is asking the counties to contact the voters by mail. Those who don’t respond within about two months of being contacted could be stricken from the rolls.

    Read more here: Feds to Florida: halt non-citizen voter purge - Florida - MiamiHerald.com
    That doesn't sound as unreasonable as the first half of the article makes it out to be. They started with a wide database, cross-checked records and came up with 2700 people that don't appear to be citizens. Then, they asked them to prove they have the right to vote.
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    Re: Feds to Florida: halt non-citizen voter purge

    Quote Originally Posted by ksu_aviator View Post
    Did anyone read the article?



    That doesn't sound as unreasonable as the first half of the article makes it out to be. They started with a wide database, cross-checked records and came up with 2700 people that don't appear to be citizens. Then, they asked them to prove they have the right to vote.

    Agreed, and instead of looking at what is going on as being a good thing to protect the integrity of everyones vote, be it demo, or rep. Instead what we get is all out attack of the people in charge, phony arguments of voter disenfranchisement, and personal attack of anyone that dares even discuss anything other than letting non citizens vote. Now who is doing that, and why should be the real question.


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    Re: Feds to Florida: halt non-citizen voter purge

    Quote Originally Posted by ksu_aviator View Post
    Did anyone read the article?



    That doesn't sound as unreasonable as the first half of the article makes it out to be. They started with a wide database, cross-checked records and came up with 2700 people that don't appear to be citizens. Then, they asked them to prove they have the right to vote.
    So let's assume that they keep going and eventually come up with, say, 10,000 people who *may* not be citizens. The burden is then placed on these folks, most of whom are citizens, to prove their citizenship or be purged from the voter roles. Just picking numbers out of the air, let's say that 500 are elderly, or handicapped, and lack transportation, so they aren't able to contest the finding, but would have voted. Now let's say that there were 50 people who were legitimately non-citizens who would have voted and were purged. Under this scenario, was it still a worthwhile endeavor?
    "The necessaries of life occasion the great expense of the poor. They find it difficult to get food, and the greater part of their little revenue is spent in getting it. The luxuries and vanities of life occasion the principal expense of the rich, and a magnificent house embellishes and sets off to the best advantage all the other luxuries and vanities which they possess. ... It is not very unreasonable that the rich should contribute to the public expense, not only in proportion to their revenue, but something more than in that proportion."

    -- Adam Smith

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    Re: Feds to Florida: halt non-citizen voter purge

    Quote Originally Posted by AdamT View Post
    So let's assume that they keep going and eventually come up with, say, 10,000 people who *may* not be citizens. The burden is then placed on these folks, most of whom are citizens, to prove their citizenship or be purged from the voter roles. Just picking numbers out of the air, let's say that 500 are elderly, or handicapped, and lack transportation, so they aren't able to contest the finding, but would have voted. Now let's say that there were 50 people who were legitimately non-citizens who would have voted and were purged. Under this scenario, was it still a worthwhile endeavor?
    Except you're building a strawman here. We can just as easily presume the resulting number of "legitimate non-citizens" is 5000 or 8000. As for the "elderly, or handicapped, and lack transportation", if they can't get to the office to verify their voting right how are they getting to the polls to vote? You know, even in Florida (as screwed up as that state is), there is free transport and bussing for the elderly and handicapped. And hey, they can call their registered party - you better believe the party will give them a ride to maintain their registration.

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