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Thread: Court: Heart of gay marriage law unconstitutional

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    Re: Court: Heart of gay marriage law unconstitutional

    Quote Originally Posted by Harshaw View Post
    How is it not obvious?

    There are some who insist the rulings have not been based on discrimination against homosexuality, but on sex-based discrimination against those who wish to marry the same gender.

    I'm pointing out that they're wrong.

    Do you disagree?
    That claim is not made in DOMA cases as it is irrelevant to the case. This court case is about DOMA.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fiddytree View Post
    Uh oh Megyn...your vagina witchcraft is about ready to be exposed.

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    Re: Court: Heart of gay marriage law unconstitutional

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    I could be wrong, but I think even lawyers and judges understand.
    Even if this is true, they still have to work within the constructs of the law, and arguing on the basis of discrimination against homosexuals IS the weaker course.


    The central premise, regardless of wording, is discrimination against homosexuals. No one I have ever talked to doesn't understand that.
    Tell that to those who have insisted that the rulings have been about gender discrimination, and not discrimination against homosexuality.
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    Re: Court: Heart of gay marriage law unconstitutional

    Quote Originally Posted by Your Star View Post
    Lesbian, Gay Bisexual, and Transgender

    And they need to be shown that it is not a symptom, we should not lie about facts because some people refuse to see them.

    Though I agree the world population is growing way too fast.
    Ah, so you would like to see programs like welfare stopped to discourge breeding by those unable to support offspring.
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    Therefore all progress depends on the unreasonable man.” ― George Bernard Shaw, Man and Superman

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    Re: Court: Heart of gay marriage law unconstitutional

    Quote Originally Posted by Redress View Post
    That claim is not made in DOMA cases as it is irrelevant to the case. This court case is about DOMA.
    Which claim?
    “Offing those rich pigs with their own forks and knives, and then eating a meal in the same room, far out! The Weathermen dig Charles Manson.”-- Bernadine Dohrn

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    Re: Court: Heart of gay marriage law unconstitutional

    Quote Originally Posted by Harshaw View Post
    If it prevails, then the immediate result is the same, but the precedents, and where they can go, are not.

    But as I said, the weaker arguments are the ones being used, and the Supreme Court is a very different place than a district court or a three-judge appeals court. This isn't about what "everyone udnerstands." It's about the law and how the law works.

    But my comment harkens back to other arguments had on this topic, with people who know that the argument concerning discrimination against homosexuality is the weaker argument, and because they know it's the weaker argument, they insist that the rulings have actually been about gender discrimination. But they haven't been, and neither is this one.
    Exactly, and even Judge Walker KNEW that a ruling in favor of homosexuals was not going to fly based on sexuality alone. He absolutely needed to conjure up the "gender" connection. Walker did not rule in favor of gays on a 14th challenge based on their sexuality, it was based on their right to marry anyone of any gender. Anyone that read his decision would know this.

    I might add that even in some media circles reporting was that Walker ruled against Prop 8 as unconstitutional as a violation of the 14th Amendment, he DID NOT rule on sexuality based on the 14th, and due process.

    The actual appeal is Here if anyone's interested.


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    Re: Court: Heart of gay marriage law unconstitutional

    Quote Originally Posted by Harshaw View Post
    Except that there's functionally a huge difference. Rulings based on sex discrimination are more likely to stand, because sex is a suspect class. Rulings based on discrimination against homosexuality are far weaker, because homosexuality is not a suspect class.

    In order for rulings based on sex discrimination to hold, it must be successfully argued that gender isn't an inherent part of marriage.

    However, in order for rulings based on discrimination against homosexuality to stand, then it must be argued that sexuality and romantic love IS an inherent part of marriage, else there's no actual basis for claiming discrimination. This is not only harder to do than the above, but it also goes against many of the pro-SSM arguments.

    So yeah, the legal mechanics are totally different. That's why it's significant. All of this will play into a Supreme Court ruling, and the prevailing arguments have been the weaker arguments, legally speaking.
    This is not accurate at all, either in this case or SSM ban cases(ie prop 8).https://ecf.cand.uscourts.gov/cand/0...2292-ORDER.pdf
    We became a great nation not because we are a nation of cynics. We became a great nation because we are a nation of believers - Lindsey Graham

    Quote Originally Posted by Fiddytree View Post
    Uh oh Megyn...your vagina witchcraft is about ready to be exposed.

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    Re: Court: Heart of gay marriage law unconstitutional

    Quote Originally Posted by ttwtt78640 View Post
    Ah, so you would like to see programs like welfare stopped to discourge breeding by those unable to support offspring.
    You are real good friends of Mr. Strawman.
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    Re: Court: Heart of gay marriage law unconstitutional

    Quote Originally Posted by Harshaw View Post
    Sorry, but the ruling was based on discrimination against homosexuality.
    In part, but far from entirely. In fact the argument that DOMA takes away a states right to define marriage is the more important aspect.
    We became a great nation not because we are a nation of cynics. We became a great nation because we are a nation of believers - Lindsey Graham

    Quote Originally Posted by Fiddytree View Post
    Uh oh Megyn...your vagina witchcraft is about ready to be exposed.

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    Re: Court: Heart of gay marriage law unconstitutional

    Quote Originally Posted by Redress View Post
    This is not accurate at all, either in this case or SSM ban cases(ie prop 8).https://ecf.cand.uscourts.gov/cand/0...2292-ORDER.pdf
    What isn't accurate?
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    Re: Court: Heart of gay marriage law unconstitutional

    It is unconstitutional because the states have the right to define marriage. DOMA robs states from doing so that chose to legalize gay marriages.
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