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Thread: Court: Heart of gay marriage law unconstitutional

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    Professor cmakaioz's Avatar
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    Re: Court: Heart of gay marriage law unconstitutional

    Side Bulletin: Ninth Circuit declined to re-hear CA Prop 8...so pretty soon, either legal recognition of marriages resumes (without discriminating against gays and lesbians), or it goes to the USSC.
    I've moved on to a better forum (scienceforums.net). Facts matter, and I don't have the time or energy for putting up with the pretense that they don't. PM me if you'd like me to get in touch with you when I'm done developing my own forum system, likely towards the end of 2013.

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    Re: Court: Heart of gay marriage law unconstitutional

    Quote Originally Posted by cmakaioz View Post
    Side Bulletin: Ninth Circuit declined to re-hear CA Prop 8...so pretty soon, either legal recognition of marriages resumes (without discriminating against gays and lesbians), or it goes to the USSC.
    Gay marriages are recognized already, there are just stays that are keeping the state from allowing new gay marriages.
    There is nothing demonstrably true that religion can provide the world that cannot be achieved more rationally through entirely secular means.

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    Professor cmakaioz's Avatar
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    Re: Court: Heart of gay marriage law unconstitutional

    Quote Originally Posted by Cephus View Post
    Gay marriages are recognized already, there are just stays that are keeping the state from allowing new gay marriages.
    I meant new recognitions. Was in a rush.
    I've moved on to a better forum (scienceforums.net). Facts matter, and I don't have the time or energy for putting up with the pretense that they don't. PM me if you'd like me to get in touch with you when I'm done developing my own forum system, likely towards the end of 2013.

  4. #244
    Educator Flippinfunky's Avatar
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    Re: Court: Heart of gay marriage law unconstitutional

    The foundation of Marriage is LOVE...not gender. If two people of the same sex love each other, so be it...let them get married. It's not going to hurt the sanctity of marriage....divorce does.

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    Re: Court: Heart of gay marriage law unconstitutional

    Quote Originally Posted by Taylor View Post
    Nothing, really. That was the point. When it comes to marriage your view seems to be that heredity, sex, whether the pair are just friends, whether they barely know each other at all... none of that really matters in your view, correct? Because none of these factors affect a person's ability to fulfill their obligations:

    I'm just trying to understand your position better. Limiting the scope to pairs of individuals, is there any relationship (other than kids or others who lack the intellectual maturity to enter into such a relationship) where you draw the line and say "we shouldn't allow those two to get married"?

    If so, why? What's the state interest?
    The state interest in marriage is encouraging stable relationships. People who are married have shown to be better citizens and more productive members of society.

    Another interest in marriage is to encourage couples to raise children together, in two parent households. This does not require that both or either of the parents be biologically related to the child/children, only that they be willing to raise the children together. Two parents are better than one is not in contention here, since we know that it is usually better for a child to be raised by two loving parents, then by just one. There being a need for the parents to have biological connections or be of the opposite sex to provide that good raising environment is.

    There are actually some other state interests in marriage dealing with a person who is taking responsibility for another adult, at least to a certain extent, voluntarily. This allows the government to expect someone to actually pay for medical bills or funeral costs, if they can afford it because they are voluntarily agreeing to do so. And even during life, the shared income of two adults agreeing to live together in this arrangement on what they plan to be a permanent basis is good for the economy because it generally means the couple will have more money to spend, especially if they both have jobs.
    "A woman is like a teabag, you never know how strong she is until she gets in hot water." - Eleanor Roosevelt

    Keep your religion out of other people's marriages.

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    Re: Court: Heart of gay marriage law unconstitutional

    The foundation of marriage is not love. It's a civil contract treated specially by governments to encourage stability in the family environment. In many cutures marriage came first, romantic love somewhere down the road if you were "lucky".

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    Re: Court: Heart of gay marriage law unconstitutional

    Quote Originally Posted by clownboy View Post
    The foundation of marriage is not love. It's a civil contract treated specially by the governments to encourage stability in the family environment. In many cutures marriage came first, romantic love somewhere down the road if you were "lucky".
    Since we live in the US, love is generally considered to come first (whether really there or not) rather than marrying and then falling in love, maybe. And the main reason people in the US enter into the civil marriage with each other is because they believe they love each other.

    Now, civil marriage is a contract. A couple can make all the vows they want to but that won't change anything pertaining to the civil contract of marriage.
    "A woman is like a teabag, you never know how strong she is until she gets in hot water." - Eleanor Roosevelt

    Keep your religion out of other people's marriages.

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    Educator Flippinfunky's Avatar
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    Re: Court: Heart of gay marriage law unconstitutional

    Quote Originally Posted by clownboy View Post
    The foundation of marriage is not love. It's a civil contract treated specially by governments to encourage stability in the family environment. In many cutures marriage came first, romantic love somewhere down the road if you were "lucky".
    I'm fully aware marriage is a legal contract...however, it's rare people get married for the contract. Gay people aren't requesting the right to get married for ****s and giggles...they're capable of love just as heterosexuals are and want to bind it by contract too.
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    Re: Court: Heart of gay marriage law unconstitutional

    Quote Originally Posted by clownboy View Post
    The foundation of marriage is not love. It's a civil contract treated specially by governments to encourage stability in the family environment. In many cutures marriage came first, romantic love somewhere down the road if you were "lucky".
    I'm not sure how that is incompatible with same sex couples marrying given that same sex couples have kids and those kids could also benefit from the stability.
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    Re: Court: Heart of gay marriage law unconstitutional

    Quote Originally Posted by Flippinfunky View Post
    I'm fully aware marriage is a legal contract...however, it's rare people get married for the contract. Gay people aren't requesting the right to get married for ****s and giggles...they're capable of love just as heterosexuals are and want to bind it by contract too.
    That's precisely what "gay people" (my god, I don't know if I'm even using the right terminology anymore) want - the legal contract. They can have all the ceremonies they wish right now, any church, or even Uncle Joe if he'll perform the ceremony. But it doesn't confer upon them the priviledges that the contract does. That's what they are after.

    It's not rare, just the reverse - people who don't care about the contract generally just live together.

    Quote Originally Posted by CriticalThought
    I'm not sure how that is incompatible with same sex couples marrying given that same sex couples have kids and those kids could also benefit from the stability.
    That post was only to rebut that the "foundation of marriage is love".
    Last edited by clownboy; 06-06-12 at 07:33 PM.

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