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Thread: 'Very clear' signs of Iran sanitizing military site, Western diplomat says

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    Re: 'Very clear' signs of Iran sanitizing military site, Western diplomat says

    Typical UN exercise in lots of time and money wasting; give notice as to the inspection zone, picked from a list agreed to by Iran, wait until the agreed permission to inspect date, briefly inspect and then announce that all seems well. Rinse and repeat.
    “The reasonable man adapts himself to the world: the unreasonable one persists to adapt the world to himself.
    Therefore all progress depends on the unreasonable man.” ― George Bernard Shaw, Man and Superman

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    Re: 'Very clear' signs of Iran sanitizing military site, Western diplomat says

    Quote Originally Posted by Khayembii Communique View Post
    100% right.

    You yourself underlined the section that says that the Agency has jurisdiction "on all source or special fissionable material".
    Yours is a blanket assumption. One does not know that. From The San Francisco Chronicle:

    Iran razed two buildings near a suspected nuclear-trigger test site inside of its sprawling Parchin military complex...

    Iran Razes Two Buildings Near Suspected Parchin Nuclear Site

    From The New York Times:

    The world’s global nuclear inspection agency, frustrated by Iran’s refusal to answer questions, revealed for the first time on Tuesday that it possesses evidence that Tehran has conducted work on a highly sophisticated nuclear triggering technology that experts said could be used for only one purpose: setting off a nuclear weapon.

    http://www.nytimes.com/2011/05/25/wo...st/25iran.html

    So, yes, the IAEA has authority and reasonable basis to seek to inspect the suspected nuclear site.

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    Re: 'Very clear' signs of Iran sanitizing military site, Western diplomat says

    Quote Originally Posted by donny
    From The San Francisco Chronicle:

    Iran razed two buildings near a suspected nuclear-trigger test site inside of its sprawling Parchin military complex...

    Iran Razes Two Buildings Near Suspected Parchin Nuclear Site
    Oh? And who suspects that? The SF Chronicle? You? Who cares?

    The IAEA? Provide the direct source, then, and let's get to it.


    From The New York Times:

    The world’s global nuclear inspection agency, frustrated by Iran’s refusal to answer questions, revealed for the first time on Tuesday that it possesses evidence that Tehran has conducted work on a highly sophisticated nuclear triggering technology that experts said could be used for only one purpose: setting off a nuclear weapon.

    http://www.nytimes.com/2011/05/25/wo...st/25iran.html

    So, yes, the IAEA has authority and reasonable basis to seek to inspect the suspected nuclear site.
    This has absolutely nothing to do with Parchin. You're obfuscating and being dishonest again.

    EDIT: Also, this NYT article is lying. Good job posting a crap article that makes you out to be even more deceitful.
    Last edited by Khayembii Communique; 05-31-12 at 11:50 PM.
    "I do not claim that every incident in the history of empire can be explained in directly economic terms. Economic interests are filtered through a political process, policies are implemented by a complex state apparatus, and the whole system generates its own momentum."

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    Re: 'Very clear' signs of Iran sanitizing military site, Western diplomat says

    Quote Originally Posted by donsutherland1 View Post
    Yours is a blanket assumption. One does not know that. From The San Francisco Chronicle:

    Iran razed two buildings near a suspected nuclear-trigger test site inside of its sprawling Parchin military complex...

    Iran Razes Two Buildings Near Suspected Parchin Nuclear Site

    From The New York Times:

    The world’s global nuclear inspection agency, frustrated by Iran’s refusal to answer questions, revealed for the first time on Tuesday that it possesses evidence that Tehran has conducted work on a highly sophisticated nuclear triggering technology that experts said could be used for only one purpose: setting off a nuclear weapon.

    http://www.nytimes.com/2011/05/25/wo...st/25iran.html

    So, yes, the IAEA has authority and reasonable basis to seek to inspect the suspected nuclear site.
    If I were Iran, I'd definitely be building 'nukes.' The USA continually threatens Iran, has invaded Iran's neighbors, Embargoed Iran, violated Iran's airspace and uses bullcrap UN propaganda just like was used against Libya. Iran should be afraid of the USA, the UN, and our ignorant allies. There is OIL under their sand and that is what it is all about. All the diplomatic smooth talkery in the world cannot hide the fact that Exxon/Mobil, BP, Total, etc. have paid enough politicians to get Iran's resources into the Centralized Distribution Network. Screw a bunch of nuance, it's about OIL politics and treachery and scumbaggery, USA style.

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    Re: 'Very clear' signs of Iran sanitizing military site, Western diplomat says

    Just for fun, and since I assume (hope - for his sake) that Don stops responding to me to save face, let's look at the claim he quoted in the NYT article that I called a lie:

    The world’s global nuclear inspection agency, frustrated by Iran’s refusal to answer questions, revealed for the first time on Tuesday that it possesses evidence that Tehran has conducted work on a highly sophisticated nuclear triggering technology that experts said could be used for only one purpose: setting off a nuclear weapon.

    http://www.nytimes.com/2011/05/25/wo...st/25iran.html
    This is a lie for a two reasons.

    First, the IAEA never said that it possessed evidence in its May 24, 2011 Report

    Let's quote the report itself:

    35. Based on the Agency’s continued study of information which the Agency has acquired from many Member States and through its own efforts, the Agency remains concerned about the possible existence in
    Iran of past or current undisclosed nuclear related activities involving military related organizations, including activities related to the development of a nuclear payload for a missile. Since the last report of the
    Director General on 25 February 2011, the Agency has received further information related to such possible undisclosed nuclear related activities, which is currently being assessed by the Agency. As previously
    reported by the Director General, there are indications that certain of these activities may have continuedbeyond 2004.40 The following points refer to examples of activities for which clarifications remain necessary
    in seven particular areas of concern:41

    • High explosives manufacture and testing: developing, manufacturing and testing of explosive components suitable for the initiation of high explosives in a converging spherical geometry.

    • Exploding bridgewire (EBW) detonator studies, particularly involving applications necessitating high simultaneity: possible nuclear significance of the use of EBW detonators.

    • Multipoint explosive initiation and hemispherical detonation studies involving highly instrumented experiments: integrating EBW detonators in the development of a system to initiate hemispherical
    high explosive charges and conducting full scale experiments, work which may have benefitted from the assistance of foreign expertise.

    Source
    It's quite clear from this passage - the only relevant passage in the document - that the agency did not reveal that it possesses evidence. It "remains concerned" about the "possible existence" and has received "information" about "possible" activities.

    So that's that for lie number one. Let's move to lie number two.

    Second, the "highly sophisticated nuclear triggering technology" - multipoint exploding bridgewire(EBW) detonators - are most certainly used for purposes other than setting off a nuclear weapon

    Without boring you about EBW detonation in general, or multipoint initiation, such technology is used in the creation of detonation nanodiamonds. Weird, isn't it? Well, if you know what you're talking about then this makes perfect sense. The "unnamed expert" which they reference in later reports (one of their sources for this information) was actually Vyacheslav Danilenko, a Ukrainian scientist who has worked on the forefront of the nanodiamond industry since its infancy in the USSR.

    In fact, let's look at this alarmist WaPo article:

    The Associated Press reported that U.N. officials have acquired satellite photos of a bus-size steel container used by Iran for some of the explosives testing.
    Oh, you mean something that looks like this?



    This was pulled from the Alit website, a producer of detonation nanodiamonds and with whom Dr. Danilenko is related. That is a detonation tank to create nanodiamonds, not a nuclear device. So how does this relate to nuclear weaponry at all? It doesn't!

    Quote Originally Posted by IAEA
    44. The Agency has strong indications that the development by Iran of the high explosives initiation system, and its development of the high speed diagnostic configuration used to monitor related experiments, were assisted by the work of a foreign expert who was not only knowledgeable in these technologies, but who, a Member State has informed the Agency, worked for much of his career with this technology in the nuclear weapon programme of the country of his origin. The Agency has reviewed publications by this foreign expert and has met with him. The Agency has been able to verify through three separate routes, including the expert himself, that this person [Dr. Danilenko] was in Iran from about 1996 to about 2002, ostensibly to assist Iran in the development of a facility and techniques for making ultra-dispersed diamonds (“UDDs” or “nanodiamonds”), where he also lectured on explosion physics and its applications.

    45. Furthermore, the Agency has received information from two Member States that, after 2003, Iran engaged in experimental research involving a scaled down version of the hemispherical initiation system and high explosive charge referred to in paragraph 43 above, albeit in connection with non-nuclear applications. This work, together with other studies made known to the Agency in which the same initiation system is used in cylindrical geometry [see the above image], could also be relevant to improving and optimizing the multipoint initiation design concept relevant to nuclear applications.

    Source
    This is a shining example of the level of misinformation, obfuscation and outright lies constantly paraded about in the press and elsewhere regarding Iran's nuclear program and its relation with the IAEA.
    Last edited by Khayembii Communique; 06-01-12 at 12:30 AM.
    "I do not claim that every incident in the history of empire can be explained in directly economic terms. Economic interests are filtered through a political process, policies are implemented by a complex state apparatus, and the whole system generates its own momentum."

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    Re: 'Very clear' signs of Iran sanitizing military site, Western diplomat says

    Quote Originally Posted by DaveFagan View Post
    If I were Iran, I'd definitely be building 'nukes.' The USA continually threatens Iran, has invaded Iran's neighbors, Embargoed Iran, violated Iran's airspace and uses bullcrap UN propaganda just like was used against Libya. Iran should be afraid of the USA, the UN, and our ignorant allies. There is OIL under their sand and that is what it is all about. All the diplomatic smooth talkery in the world cannot hide the fact that Exxon/Mobil, BP, Total, etc. have paid enough politicians to get Iran's resources into the Centralized Distribution Network. Screw a bunch of nuance, it's about OIL politics and treachery and scumbaggery, USA style.
    ..and all the stalled talks and nonsensical posturing by Iran is only a smoke screen for buying time to further develop Iran's nuclear missile capability . "Iran’s nuclear chief, reversing the country’s previous statements, said on state television on Sunday that the country would not halt its production of higher-grade uranium,The official, Fereydoon Abbasi, said there would be no suspension of enrichment by Iran, the central requirement of several United Nations Security Council resolutions. He specifically said that applied to uranium being enriched to 20 percent purity — a steppingstone that puts it in fairly easy reach of producing highly enriched uranium that can be used for nuclear weapons."

    http://www.nytimes.com/2012/05/28/wo...nium.html?_r=1

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    Re: 'Very clear' signs of Iran sanitizing military site, Western diplomat says

    I never quite cease to be amazed at all the apologists for the Iranian theocracy's pursuit of nuclear weapons. What I don't understand is why they think the acquisition of nuclear weapons by religious zealots would advance the cause of nuclear nonproliferation. Maybe it's just me be thick headed again.

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    Re: 'Very clear' signs of Iran sanitizing military site, Western diplomat says

    Quote Originally Posted by Khayembii Communique View Post
    Oh? And who suspects that? The SF Chronicle? You? Who cares?

    The IAEA? Provide the direct source, then, and let's get to it.

    This has absolutely nothing to do with Parchin. You're obfuscating and being dishonest again.

    EDIT: Also, this NYT article is lying. Good job posting a crap article that makes you out to be even more deceitful.
    There is a direct reference to the Parchin site in the news. To say that the stories have "nothing to do with Parchin" is completely baseless. That the news accounts don't support your unconditional belief in Iran's account does not mean that the newspapers are, therefore, "lying."

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    Re: 'Very clear' signs of Iran sanitizing military site, Western diplomat says

    There is a direct reference to the Parchin site in the news.
    The lying NYT article to which you linked did not mention nor have anything to do with Parchin whatsoever. Deny it all you want, the link is right there for everyone to see that it says absolutely nothing of Parchin and you brought it up in order to attempt to make people assume that it was related.

    Regarding the lying, I already showed that to be true.
    "I do not claim that every incident in the history of empire can be explained in directly economic terms. Economic interests are filtered through a political process, policies are implemented by a complex state apparatus, and the whole system generates its own momentum."

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    Re: 'Very clear' signs of Iran sanitizing military site, Western diplomat says

    Quote Originally Posted by Jetboogieman View Post
    Not every problem can be solved with bombing.
    It is better to try and to fail than to never have tried at all.

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