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Thread: 'Very clear' signs of Iran sanitizing military site, Western diplomat says

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    Re: 'Very clear' signs of Iran sanitizing military site, Western diplomat says

    Quote Originally Posted by donsutherland1
    However, the worry that Parchin is being used for nuclear activities gives the IAEA legitimate grounds to seek an inspection.
    The unfounded suspicion by the IAEA does not give it authority to schedule such an inspection. I think you need to get a little educated on what you are discussing because you are very clearly clueless on what the IAEA's jurisdiction is or on what grounds it can request an inspection.

    In other words, you're perpetuating the same lie that was asserted a decade ago.

    IAEA is likely to conclude that it cannot verify that Iran is not engaged in such activities.
    "We suspect that Iran is hiding nuclear bombs under Ahmedinejad's bed, therefore we request an inspection. If this request is denied, we will conclude that we cannot verify that there are no nukes under his bed lul." - Chief IAEA Spokesman (pictured below).

    Last edited by Khayembii Communique; 05-31-12 at 10:51 PM.
    "I do not claim that every incident in the history of empire can be explained in directly economic terms. Economic interests are filtered through a political process, policies are implemented by a complex state apparatus, and the whole system generates its own momentum."

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    Re: 'Very clear' signs of Iran sanitizing military site, Western diplomat says

    Quote Originally Posted by 24107 View Post
    The simple reason for the U.S. and Europe not having to engage in covert nuclear activities like Iran, is because they proudly and arrogantly flaunt openly the fact they have WMD's already. Imagine if the situation was reversed and Iran had a WMD first, and was trying to tell the European's and American's not to build their own WMD's. The U.S. and Europe would say go piss off why do you have the right to have them and not us? And you best believe the U.S. and Europe would covertly try to produce them same as Iran if they didn't have the military upper hand and felt pressured/threatened with inspections and sanctions... just sayin
    I fully recognize that there is an element of fairness involved. Nonetheless, the fact is that Iran agreed to the NPT, which comes with obligations. The other issue is that the greater the number of countries possessing nuclear arms grows, the greater risk there could be of accident or worse.

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    Re: 'Very clear' signs of Iran sanitizing military site, Western diplomat says

    Can you hear that? It is the drum of War, and they haven't stopped beating it.
    Libertarian and Atheist...wow I'm a hated man.

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    Re: 'Very clear' signs of Iran sanitizing military site, Western diplomat says

    Quote Originally Posted by Khayembii Communique View Post
    The unfounded suspicion by the IAEA does not give it authority to schedule such an inspection. I think you need to get a little educated on what you are discussing because you are very clearly clueless on what the IAEA's jurisdiction is or on what grounds it can request an inspection.
    Contrary to your implicit assertion of Iranian immunity, the NPT states in Article V:

    Each Party to the Treaty undertakes to take appropriate measures to ensure that, in accordance with this Treaty, under appropriate international observation and through appropriate international procedures, potential benefits from any peaceful applications of nuclear explosions will be made available to non-nuclear-weapon States Party to the Treaty on a non-discriminatory basis and that the charge to such Parties for the explosive devices used will be as low as possible and exclude any charge for research and development.

    And in Iran's treaty with the IAEA, Article 2 declares:

    The Agency shall have the right and the obligation to ensure that safeguards will be applied, in accordance with the terms of this Agreement, on all source or special fissionable material in all peaceful nuclear activities within the territory of Iran, under its jurisdiction or carried out under its control anywhere, for the exclusive purpose of verifying that such material is not diverted to nuclear weapons or other nuclear explosive devices.

    The IAEA is not precluded from requesting inspections anywhere in Iran.

    Iran's protections with regard to sensitive sites are set forth in Article 8 (c) and 9 (c). Article 8(c) states:

    If the Government of Iran so requests, the Agency shall be prepared to examine on premises of Iran design information which the Government of Iran regards as being ofparticular sensitivity. Such information need not be physically transmitted to the Agency provided that it remains readily available for further examination by the Agency on premises of Iran.

    Article 9 (c) declares:

    The visits and activities of Agency inspectors shall be so arranged as:

    (i) To reduce to a minimum the possible inconvenience and disturbance to the Government of Iran and to the peaceful nuclear activities inspected; and

    (ii) To ensure protection of industrial secrets or any other confidential information coming to the inspectors’ knowledge.


    So, to clarify, Iran can invoke national security grounds to seek these protections. It cannot outright reject inspections on those grounds. Iran's latitude is narrower than I had previously stated.

    "We suspect that Iran is hiding nuclear bombs under Ahmedinejad's bed, therefore we request an inspection. If this request is denied, we will conclude that we cannot verify that there are no nukes under his bed lul." - Chief IAEA Spokesman (pictured below).
    You might believe it is a joking matter. But the Iran-IAEA treaty states:

    If, as a result of the repeated refusal of the Government of Iran to accept the designation of Agency inspectors, inspections to be conducted under this Agreement would be impeded, such refusal shall be considered by the Board, upon referral by the Director General of the Agency (hereinafter referred to as “the Director General”), with a view to its taking appropriate action.

    The lack of sufficient cooperation has led the IAEA to document its concerns and the forthcoming report will be no different, barring a sudden change of conduct on Iran's part.
    Last edited by donsutherland1; 05-31-12 at 11:19 PM.

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    Re: 'Very clear' signs of Iran sanitizing military site, Western diplomat says

    Quote Originally Posted by donsutherland1 View Post
    I fully recognize that there is an element of fairness involved. Nonetheless, the fact is that Iran agreed to the NPT, which comes with obligations. The other issue is that the greater the number of countries possessing nuclear arms grows, the greater risk there could be of accident or worse.
    Not everything in life is in black and white, to the Iranians the NPT only gives their advesaries in the region and abroad the upper hand, by taking away a deterrant that they can have in their deck of military cards, remember they are practically surrounded with threatening nuculear power's in the region such as the U.S. military and Israel.So it would be natural to lie and buy time by saying''ya ya well abide by the npt''. I want to point out that In iran's mind the npt was set up by enemy powers such as Israel, U.S. and Some European nation's who are also hostile, such as Britian, who are widely viewed as the U.S. and Israel's attack dog. So the npt is a proposterous hyprocritcal treaty designed to undermine and weaken Iran's regional strength which negatively affects their economy. Plus the Iranians saw how saddam bent over to inspectors and still ended up hanging like a dog. While the North koreans stuck two middle fingers up and dared anyone attack them, and they produced nukes. and we hear crickets chirping about them. You think the Iranians noticed these two situations?

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    Re: 'Very clear' signs of Iran sanitizing military site, Western diplomat says


    The Agency shall have the right and the obligation to ensure that safeguards will be applied, in accordance with the terms of this Agreement, on all source or special fissionable material in all peaceful nuclear activities within the territory of Iran, under its jurisdiction or carried out under its control anywhere, for the exclusive purpose of verifying that such material is not diverted to nuclear weapons or other nuclear explosive devices.
    100% right.


    The IAEA is not precluded from requesting inspections anywhere in Iran.
    100% wrong.

    How you can make the leap from the former to the latter is mind boggling. You yourself underlined the section that says that the Agency has jurisdiction "on all source or special fissionable material".

    Hint: There never was any "source or special fissionable material" in Parchin.

    So again, you have no idea what you're talking about.

    EDIT: For fun and more pwnage, let's quote 8(b) which you conveniently (dishonestly) omitted:

    (b) (i) The Agency shall require only the minimum amount of information and data consistent with carrying out its responsibilities under this Agreement.

    (ii) Information pertaining to facilities shall be the minimum necessary for safe-guarding nuclear material subject to safeguards under this Agreement.

    I will also provide the source document because I am honest and know I am right.

    Last edited by Khayembii Communique; 05-31-12 at 11:26 PM.
    "I do not claim that every incident in the history of empire can be explained in directly economic terms. Economic interests are filtered through a political process, policies are implemented by a complex state apparatus, and the whole system generates its own momentum."

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    Re: 'Very clear' signs of Iran sanitizing military site, Western diplomat says

    Quote Originally Posted by AreteCourage View Post
    Can you hear that? It is the drum of War, and they haven't stopped beating it.
    I'm not advocating war. I still believe a diplomatic resolution is feasible, but Iranian good faith and cooperation will be required and the timeframe for such an agreement is shortening. Much tougher sanctions might be needed to bring about such an outcome. Alternatively, if that fails, a deterrence regime might be feasible. Certainly, it should be explored.

    Having said that, one can't rule out a military strike by Israel and/or the U.S. at some point. In the absence of an effective and verifiable agreement and an available deterrence alternative, the risks of such a strike could be elevated.

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    Re: 'Very clear' signs of Iran sanitizing military site, Western diplomat says

    Quote Originally Posted by Khayembii Communique View Post



    100% wrong.
    Your assessment is 100% wrong. The Iran-IAEA treaty states what it does and I posted the language. Its provisions are unambiguous. That you choose to ignore them does not change Iran's obligations vis-a-vis the IAEA nor the IAEA's authority.

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    Re: 'Very clear' signs of Iran sanitizing military site, Western diplomat says

    Quote Originally Posted by donsutherland1 View Post
    From MSNBC:



    World News - 'Very clear' signs of Iran sanitizing military site, Western diplomat says

    If Iran's nuclear activities were truly within compliance of its NPT obligations, one very likely would not be witnessing the kind of activities described in this story. Given this latest development, I believe the operative assumption should be that Iran is engaging in illicit nuclear activities. Diplomatic and broader policy strategy should at least take into consideration such a scenario.
    It's clear to me that we should invade them, slaughter their men and have our way with their women, and their dogs, if you are from Kansas. Iran should learn that we expect the same verification privileges that we extend to them. Cheeky bastards.










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    When trouble arises and things look bad, there is always one individual who perceives a solution and is willing to take command. Very often, that person is crazy. ~Dave Barry



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    Re: 'Very clear' signs of Iran sanitizing military site, Western diplomat says

    Quote Originally Posted by donny
    Your assessment is 100% wrong. The Iran-IAEA treaty states what it does and I posted the language. Its provisions are unambiguous. That you choose to ignore them does not change Iran's obligations vis-a-vis the IAEA nor the IAEA's authority.
    Aww, cute, you've been cornered by the blatant facts and you can no longer respond reasonably.

    Facts:

    1. The IAEA's jurisdiction is "on all source or special fissionable material in all peaceful nuclear activities within the territory of Iran".
    2. There was never any of that at Parchin.
    3. The IAEA has no right to inspect Parchin as it is outside of its jurisdiction as blatantly defined by the treaty, as "Information pertaining to facilities shall be the minimum necessary for safe-guarding nuclear material [remember there was none of this at Parchin] subject to safeguards under this Agreement."

    QED
    Last edited by Khayembii Communique; 05-31-12 at 11:30 PM.
    "I do not claim that every incident in the history of empire can be explained in directly economic terms. Economic interests are filtered through a political process, policies are implemented by a complex state apparatus, and the whole system generates its own momentum."

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