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Thread: 'Very clear' signs of Iran sanitizing military site, Western diplomat says

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    Re: 'Very clear' signs of Iran sanitizing military site, Western diplomat says

    Quote Originally Posted by DiAnna
    The fact that Iran first invites IAEA inspections, while basically razing those sites the IAEA have requested access to is more than troubling.
    The IAEA has absolutely zero jurisdiction over Parchin. The Iranian government is in full compliance with international obligations in completely denying them access to sensitive national security installations that in absolutely no way pertain to the Iranian nuclear program and which the IAEA has absolutely no basis for requesting a visit.
    "I do not claim that every incident in the history of empire can be explained in directly economic terms. Economic interests are filtered through a political process, policies are implemented by a complex state apparatus, and the whole system generates its own momentum."

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    Re: 'Very clear' signs of Iran sanitizing military site, Western diplomat says

    Quote Originally Posted by Jetboogieman View Post
    Not every problem can be solved with bombing.
    I agree. I still believe that a robust deterrence regime could be feasible. Such a regime would work as follows:

    Any nuclear attack or attempted nuclear attack against the U.S. or its Mideast allies would result in guaranteed, automatic nuclear destruction of Iran.

    I do not believe Iran's leaders are suicidal. If Iran knew that the odds of such retaliation were assured, it would have every incentive to refrain from such attack, much less avoid proliferating nuclear materials knowing that it would be held accountable for almost any attempted or actual nuclear attack. The exception would be if the U.S. had traced a missile attack or attempted missile attack that originated from another nuclear power. In terms of ambiguity, Iran would be held responsible.

    Although that framework might seem unfair, effectiveness not fairness is the overriding goal. The goal would be to minimize any prospects that Iran would attempt such an attack. In fact, such terms could make it prohibitively risky for Iran to possess such weapons in the first place. Hence, under such a stark framework, deterrence would have the greatest prospect of succeeding.

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    Re: 'Very clear' signs of Iran sanitizing military site, Western diplomat says

    Quote Originally Posted by Khayembii Communique View Post
    The IAEA has absolutely zero jurisdiction over Parchin. The Iranian government is in full compliance with international obligations in completely denying them access to sensitive national security installations that in absolutely no way pertain to the Iranian nuclear program and which the IAEA has absolutely no basis for requesting a visit.
    While that is true, Iran is fully accountable for the consequences of its actions e.g., if the international community chooses to maintain or further tighten sanctions, etc.

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    Re: 'Very clear' signs of Iran sanitizing military site, Western diplomat says

    Any nuclear attack or attempted nuclear attack against the U.S. or its Mideast allies
    Anyone that believes this is even a plausibility is beyond reason. You apparently exist only to spread misinformation and to obfuscate to such an extent to justify unnecessary and unjustified intervention against Iran.

    While that is true
    If this is true then why would you start such a dishonest, partisan hack thread?
    Last edited by Khayembii Communique; 05-31-12 at 10:31 PM.
    "I do not claim that every incident in the history of empire can be explained in directly economic terms. Economic interests are filtered through a political process, policies are implemented by a complex state apparatus, and the whole system generates its own momentum."

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    Re: 'Very clear' signs of Iran sanitizing military site, Western diplomat says

    Quote Originally Posted by DiAnna View Post
    This development is not surprising to me, nor will I be surprised when a "stunned" world is informed that Iran has tested its first nuclear weapon.
    I'm not surprised either. Iran's strategy has been to use negotiations not to resolve the dispute, but to buy time for whatever it is pursuing. One should not be surprised that no breakthroughs were achieved in the latest round of talks nor that Iran has already warned that there is little prospect of a breakthrough in the upcoming round.

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    Re: 'Very clear' signs of Iran sanitizing military site, Western diplomat says

    Quote Originally Posted by Khayembii Communique View Post
    Anyone that believes this is even a plausibility is beyond reason. You apparently exist only to spread misinformation and to obfuscate to such an extent to justify unnecessary and unjustified intervention against Iran.
    The construction of a deterrence regime is a theoretical alternative to military strikes.

    If this is true then why would you start such a dishonest, partisan hack thread?
    I am in no way suggesting that Iran is not engaging in illicit nuclear activities. Like the IAEA, as will be noted in its forthcoming report, I have concerns about its recent activities. Iran, like any other state, bears the consequences of its choices.

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    Re: 'Very clear' signs of Iran sanitizing military site, Western diplomat says

    I am in no way suggesting that Iran is not engaging in illicit nuclear activities.
    Yet you openly admit that in this case the Iranian government is completely justified in denying IAEA inspection of Parchin, and that IAEA was overstepping its bounds in requesting such a thing, and that there has never been any evidence to suggest that Parchin has been linked to the Iranian nuclear program and that therefore the bulldozing of two buildings on its premises has absolutely nothing to do with anything whatsoever.

    And then you continue to make unsubstantiated, baseless claims that Iran is engaging in illicit nuclear activities.

    Yes, certainly not a partisan hack thread whose purpose is the spread of misinformation (read: lies) and obfuscation (read: deceipt).
    "I do not claim that every incident in the history of empire can be explained in directly economic terms. Economic interests are filtered through a political process, policies are implemented by a complex state apparatus, and the whole system generates its own momentum."

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    Re: 'Very clear' signs of Iran sanitizing military site, Western diplomat says

    Quote Originally Posted by donsutherland1 View Post
    For some satellite photos of Iran's activities:

    http://isis-online.org/uploads/isis-...ay_30_2012.pdf

    These activities are not the activities one normally witnesses around civilian nuclear facilities. How often does one witness such activity around European or U.S. nuclear plants? There is no benign explanation for them.
    The simple reason for the U.S. and Europe not having to engage in covert nuclear activities like Iran, is because they proudly and arrogantly flaunt openly the fact they have WMD's already. Imagine if the situation was reversed and Iran had a WMD first, and was trying to tell the European's and American's not to build their own WMD's. The U.S. and Europe would say go piss off why do you have the right to have them and not us? And you best believe the U.S. and Europe would covertly try to produce them same as Iran if they didn't have the military upper hand and felt pressured/threatened with inspections and sanctions... just sayin

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    Re: 'Very clear' signs of Iran sanitizing military site, Western diplomat says

    Lol nevermind misread, thought you said something wayyyy dumber than you did.
    "I do not claim that every incident in the history of empire can be explained in directly economic terms. Economic interests are filtered through a political process, policies are implemented by a complex state apparatus, and the whole system generates its own momentum."

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    Re: 'Very clear' signs of Iran sanitizing military site, Western diplomat says

    Quote Originally Posted by Khayembii Communique View Post
    Yet you openly admit that in this case the Iranian government is completely justified in denying IAEA inspection of Parchin, and that IAEA was overstepping its bounds in requesting such a thing...
    Not at all. I'm suggesting that Iran has sovereign grounds to take its stance. However, the worry that Parchin is being used for nuclear activities gives the IAEA legitimate grounds to seek an inspection. Iran could well continue to refuse to permit it, but IAEA would be well within its authority to conclude that Iran failed to allow it to resolve doubts and make recommendations based on that situation.

    And then you continue to make unsubstantiated, baseless claims that Iran is engaging in illicit nuclear activities.
    I stated that the operative assumption should be along those lines until the concerns are resolved. Until its concerns are resolved IAEA is likely to conclude that it cannot verify that Iran is not engaged in such activities. Iran, almost certainly, will not like that conclusion, but that conclusion will be a logical outcome of its own choices vis-a-vis the IAEA.

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