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Thread: Clinton condemns Syria 'atrocity' in Houla

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    Re: Clinton condemns Syria 'atrocity' in Houla

    Quote Originally Posted by donsutherland1 View Post
    On this point, we agree. While I won't suggest that Secretary Rumsfeld was the worst Secretary of Defense in history, I do believe Secretary Gates was among the finest.
    Oh I believe he was the worst. Never have we had a non-seving SECDEF that refused to appreciate the wisdom of military generals. He regarded our military leadership with disdain. He's the patient that insists upon transplanting his own heart because the surgeon isn't good enough. Rumsfeld was probably the most hated.


    Quote Originally Posted by donsutherland1 View Post
    In most cases, I believe the U.S. should not get involved in domestic insurrections. The exceptions would be cases where critical national interests are at stake. In that context, I believe that the U.S. made a strategic blunder in abandoning the Shah of Iran. That would be a rare case where I believe the U.S. should have backed the embattled ruler. When the U.S. pulled its support, the Army lost all sense of purpose and disintegrated. Iran has evolved into a hostile revolutionary state and possibly one that is bent on developing nuclear weapons. It made a strategic blunder in pressuring President Musharraf to step aside and should have maintained a consistent message of seeking a transition to more democratic rule, but with the timelines left to the Pakistanis. Pakistan has since evolved into an unreliable, often hostile, and decaying state. It should come as no big surprise that not only had Osama Bin Laden found refuge in Pakisan (whether or not there was some governmental support is a different matter) and Al Qaeda's #2 commander who was targeted in the most recent drone attack was there, as well. Power vacuums are exploited and what's happening in Pakistan is par for the course.
    I believe we mess up when we forget our historical purpose and mission. We have always been in the business of stabilizing regions. A nation may be the focus, but the wider vision has always been abour region. We learned long ago that our security depends on te health of foriegn regions. Iran wouldn't be an interest to us if it didn't affect a region. Saddam Hussein could have been an isolated Castro if he didn't constantly threaten a region. Syria, specifically, is another internal issue, but because it threatens to pull Turkey (our ally) in it become external. A disentigrated Syria also threatens Israel and Lebanon, which would involve wider Arab intrusion. There isn't a country in the Middle East that doesn't involve the region. It should be of no surpise to people that the Middle Eastern region (and fringes) is the world's only unstable, unhealthy region left. The absence of democracy, healthy politicial expression, social justice, and economic prosperity is no coincidence. Dictators and religious theocracy is the cultpret. Religious radicalism and extremism is the reaction. And the "Osama Bin Ladens, Hezbollahs, and Al-Quedas" are the result.


    Quote Originally Posted by donsutherland1 View Post
    I don't believe the U.S. should be involved in Syria. The lack of critical interests, lack of support for such intervention by longstanding U.S. allies such as Jordan and Israel, and lack of any political vision or commitment to representative government or reliable partnership with the U.S. all argue against it.
    I believe Syria, like the rest, will involve the region because Syrians are a part of this Sunni Arab idea of dhumma. They all follow each other. Besides, Turkey is stressed out. Israel is stressed out. Lebanon is stressed out. The Arab League is demanding that the UN do something (notice once again how quickly the League seeks help from the foriegn devils in the absence of Arabs doing for themselves). Obviously, it is imperitave that we get global blessing before we strike (with allies and without mass ground troops), but Syria is an internal problem that is going to eventually invoke international Sunni radicals and disaster for the region. And this absolutely forces our hand.

    Quote Originally Posted by donsutherland1 View Post
    Human nature is universal. Political goals are not. The hope that a party to a civil conflict might eventually organize itself into a coherent and representative government is insufficient basis for U.S. military intervention or arms supplies. IMO, the U.S. should limit its focus to the protection of civilians, not armed elements (be they Assad's military and paramilitary units or his opponents' armed groups). If the parties wish to negotiate some kind of arrangement, that's there choice. If they choose to settle their differences on the battlefield, that's there choice, too.
    I agree...as long as this remains truly an internal issue and remains simply another event where Muslims are celebrating the slaughter of fellow Muslims.

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    Re: Clinton condemns Syria 'atrocity' in Houla

    Quote Originally Posted by MSgt View Post
    Oh I believe he was the worst. Never have we had a non-seving SECDEF that refused to appreciate the wisdom of military generals. He regarded our military leadership with disdain. He's the patient that insists upon transplanting his own heart because the surgeon isn't good enough. Rumsfeld was probably the most hated.




    I believe we mess up when we forget our historical purpose and mission. We have always been in the business of stabilizing regions. A nation may be the focus, but the wider vision has always been abour region. We learned long ago that our security depends on te health of foriegn regions. Iran wouldn't be an interest to us if it didn't affect a region. Saddam Hussein could have been an isolated Castro if he didn't constantly threaten a region. Syria, specifically, is another internal issue, but because it threatens to pull Turkey (our ally) in it become external. A disentigrated Syria also threatens Israel and Lebanon, which would involve wider Arab intrusion. There isn't a country in the Middle East that doesn't involve the region. It should be of no surpise to people that the Middle Eastern region (and fringes) is the world's only unstable, unhealthy region left. The absence of democracy, healthy politicial expression, social justice, and economic prosperity is no coincidence. Dictators and religious theocracy is the cultpret. Religious radicalism and extremism is the reaction. And the "Osama Bin Ladens, Hezbollahs, and Al-Quedas" are the result.




    I believe Syria, like the rest, will involve the region because Syrians are a part of this Sunni Arab idea of dhumma. They all follow each other. Besides, Turkey is stressed out. Israel is stressed out. Lebanon is stressed out. The Arab League is demanding that the UN do something (notice once again how quickly the League seeks help from the foriegn devils in the absence of Arabs doing for themselves). Obviously, it is imperitave that we get global blessing before we strike (with allies and without mass ground troops), but Syria is an internal problem that is going to eventually invoke international Sunni radicals and disaster for the region. And this absolutely forces our hand.



    I agree...as long as this remains truly an internal issue and remains simply another event where Muslims are celebrating the slaughter of fellow Muslims.
    The problem with the Houla massacre is that the photos of dead children are from Iraq in 2003.

    Hillary should be very careful.. We don't know what is going on in Syria.

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    Re: Clinton condemns Syria 'atrocity' in Houla

    Quote Originally Posted by sharon View Post
    The problem with the Houla massacre is that the photos of dead children are from Iraq in 2003.

    Hillary should be very careful.. We don't know what is going on in Syria.
    What are you talking about? The problem is that the Houla massacre is merelt a single event amongst many events going on.

    The entire world knows what is going on inside Syria. Even Russia and China has acknowledged it. The Arab League is begging once again from the "foreign devils" that they wish for Western support in the absence of Muslims doing for themselves. The UN has been clear about hat is going on. Not that any of this necessarily means that we automatically need to be involved (unless the UN declares a genocide, thereby making it an American obligation by international law), but the events in Syria are threatening the region, which is what we do care about.

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    Re: Clinton condemns Syria 'atrocity' in Houla

    The entire world knows what is going on inside Syria.
    Nobody knows what is going on in Syria.
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    Re: Clinton condemns Syria 'atrocity' in Houla

    Quote Originally Posted by Kane View Post


    War should only be a last resort and this is war isn't necessary.Look at how many are being injured

    "Yesterday’s deaths took the overall fatalities among US/ISAF troops this year to 692—479 of whom were Americans. Between 500 and 600 American troops are also being wounded in Afghanistan every month, many suffering horrifying injuries from roadside bombs."


    Another massacre of civilians in Afghanistan


    I don't want you to take this as personal critique if you're in the military. It begs an answer is a response from the policy makers, Obama, (NeoCon in liberal clothing) does this not prove its bad policy? The sacrifice too great for the soldiers as well as civillians?

    Anyway, here is a video about the media and the war on terror ...

    “War against a foreign country only happens when the moneyed classes think they are going to profit from it.” George Orwell

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    Re: Clinton condemns Syria 'atrocity' in Houla

    Quote Originally Posted by MSgt View Post
    What are you talking about? The problem is that the Houla massacre is merelt a single event amongst many events going on.

    The entire world knows what is going on inside Syria. Even Russia and China has acknowledged it. The Arab League is begging once again from the "foreign devils" that they wish for Western support in the absence of Muslims doing for themselves. The UN has been clear about hat is going on. Not that any of this necessarily means that we automatically need to be involved (unless the UN declares a genocide, thereby making it an American obligation by international law), but the events in Syria are threatening the region, which is what we do care about.
    The photos of the Houla massacre were taken in Iraq in 2003...

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    Re: Clinton condemns Syria 'atrocity' in Houla

    Quote Originally Posted by Khayembii Communique View Post
    Nobody knows what is going on in Syria.
    I don't understand why you say this. Syrian government officials, Syrian rebels, the Arab League, UN observors, the American intel network, the Russian government, the Turksih government, etc. are clueless? The media is producing more and video taken from Syria showing the attacks. It is very clear what is going on. And who is going to be surprised to eventually find out that religious radicals are probably also at play to excite the situation? We know what is going on inside of every nation. Despite the reports, videos, and intel, Syria is supposed to be a black hole of mystery?


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    Last edited by MSgt; 06-09-12 at 11:48 AM.

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    Re: Clinton condemns Syria 'atrocity' in Houla

    Quote Originally Posted by sharon View Post
    The photos of the Houla massacre were taken in Iraq in 2003...
    You do realize that the event did occur right? You do realize that many events have and are occurring right? You do realize that these events are going to lead to greater issues that will suck in international players right? BBC photos to illustrate the event was a BBC blunder. It really doesn't change anything.
    Last edited by MSgt; 06-09-12 at 11:58 AM.

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    Re: Clinton condemns Syria 'atrocity' in Houla

    What I find amusing in a pathetic sort of way is when Republicans wage "war" they are killers of babies and the innocent. When Democrats wag "war" its justified and they are saving a civilization.

    What's Syria going to look like when you save them from Assad, The Muslim Brotherhood? **** that.

    I for one have become tired of the half-assed intervention the US engages in around the globe which only costs tax payers billions and billions of dollars and good Americans their lives. I say give it all up and let others be. My apologies go out to the rest of the world in advance for not saving you from tyranny but if you want freedom then save yourselves like the British colonists did in the late 1700s.

    Freedom isn't free. Don't expect Americans to die for your cause any longer, whatever that may be.
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    Re: Clinton condemns Syria 'atrocity' in Houla

    Is Assad's brother still in charge of the Syrian army?

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