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Thread: Clinton condemns Syria 'atrocity' in Houla

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    Re: Clinton condemns Syria 'atrocity' in Houla

    Quote Originally Posted by Luna Tick View Post
    We bomb other countries. We have drones that kill innocent people automatically. It's in an attempt to get terrorists, but we end up killing innocents. Then when we express outrage over an atrocity committed by another country, we look like such incredible hypocrites. I don't care which party is in power. This should stop. I would be here with the same objections if Bush Jr. were still president and if it were Condoleezza Rice expressing the outrage. We're outraged? Give me a break.



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    Clinton condemns Syria 'atrocity' in Houla - Yahoo! News
    When has the US ever shelled and bombed our own cities to put down political opposition? Certainly not since the Civil War.

    Those negative political ads are bad enough, but shells and bombs? No, we don't do that.
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    Re: Clinton condemns Syria 'atrocity' in Houla

    Does anyone else here notice the resemblance to the closing chapters of Mockingjay?

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    Re: Clinton condemns Syria 'atrocity' in Houla

    Quote Originally Posted by donsutherland1 View Post
    In addressing the requirements of international law, I am not intending to suggest that this civil conflict is one between "good vs. evil" one. The Assad regime is a brutal one. The character of those opposing it remains largely uncertain. The Opposition's car bomb attack at a busy intersection in Damascus was also an unlawful attack and it suggests that it has its flaws, too. More than likely this conflict is really about a restive majority seeking to topple the Alawite minority regime. There is no charter, no identified leaders, nor other concrete evidence to suggest that the Opposition movement is about pursuing liberal democracy domestically and peace regionally.



    Many questions remain to be answered. What is know is that there had been indiscriminate bombardment by artillery that preceded the atrocities. Forensic evidence will need to be collected and analyzed. Even if the regime didn't endorse such atrocities, one cannot rule out the possibility that some troops or loyalist elements engaged in such atrocities. Many other possible explanations also exist. Ethnic conflicts can be particularly brutal, so such acts should not be too surprising.
    To add to the bolded part, it should also be noted that the Syrian rebels have been accused of committing war crimes. (http://www.nytimes.com/2012/03/21/wo...ref=middleeast) (Syria: Armed Opposition Groups Committing Abuses | Human Rights Watch)

    In addition to this, the Arab League Observer Mission Report in Syria stated that an “armed entity” exists and has been “involved in the killings of civilians and police as well as the conduct of terrorist acts, which in turn have contributed to triggering actions by government forces.” (SYRIA. TEXT OF LEAKED ARAB LEAGUE MISSION REPORT Report Reveals Media Lies Regarding Syria)

    Thus, neither side can be said to be 'good' or 'bad,' rather, it is having to choose the lesser of two evils.
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    Re: Clinton condemns Syria 'atrocity' in Houla

    The rhetoric has this weekend, been turned up. As a conservative, I can see very few situations where I'd support military action into Syria under the "humanitarian" excuse. Most if not all include either NATO and a very broad alliance, or Russia and China on the UN Security Council attributing boots and supplies. Other than that... no freaking way. The U.S. would be insane to do this alone and with this President, the chances of that are zero anyway. The U.S. is broke - we cannot afford another incursion into Syria, especially when Iran would most assuredly either covertly or openly attack our troops there (or any troops there tbh). From what I gather there is no strong opposition group vying for leadership there, so who do we work with? No clue. Obama isn't going to do a damn thing, sure as hell won't go it alone as he has neither the balls to risk such an action in an election year, nor does he know what he'd do even if we did go in - he'd literally be lost in the wilderness with no hope of finding a way out.

    So everyone best get used to seeing more atrocity stories from Syria... Politically speaking, neo-cons will pummel Obama for being weak, Republicans will pummel Obama claiming hypocrisy (we went into Libya for humanitarian reasons, why not Syria?) and that hypocrisy is Obama's own doing - we shouldn't have gone into Libya either. Iran is percolating and Israel is planning... all the while the REAL issue American's care about: Jobs and the economy, continue to sputter, debt continues to rise, welfare programs become more popular than ever, and we're talking about everything BUT what we need to. I agree with most of this thread by saying: Hell no we don't intervene in Syria, the focus is here at home.
    “I think if Thomas Jefferson were looking down, the author of the Bill of Rights, on what’s being proposed here, he’d agree with it. He would agree that the First Amendment cannot be absolute.” - Chuck Schumer (D). Yet, Madison and Mason wrote the Bill of Rights, according to Sheila Jackson Lee, 400 years ago. Yup, it's a fact.


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    Re: Clinton condemns Syria 'atrocity' in Houla

    Quote Originally Posted by Dittohead not! View Post
    When has the US ever shelled and bombed our own cities to put down political opposition? Certainly not since the Civil War.

    .
    What about 911? The victims even were not political opposition. They were sacrifies for war.

    mylaib.jpg

    My Lai

    American Massacres Have Been Common for Centuries
    by Jack D. Douglas Mar 13 2012,


    For hundreds of years Americans have been committing massacres of women and children, old men and sometimes even young men, mostly unarmed or armed only with primitive weapons. The early massacres were mostly of Indians who refused to leave their lands when Americans decided it was God's will that they steal those lands for nothing or for a few trinkets. In the Civil War Sherman and Grant routinely massacred Southern civilian populations with bombardments of cities, burning homes and Atlanta [though I do not know death figures], and so on. ......

    Most U.S. massacres are totally censored by the U.S. and its Big Media. Some come to light many decades later, as in the case of No Gun Rhi in which the U.S. gunned down unknown numbers of South Koreans. Lt, Calley and his company in South Vietnam massacred somewhere near 500 women and children in the My Lai Massacre.......

    American Massacres Have Been Common for Centuries - informationliberation
    Last edited by katsung47; 05-29-12 at 06:13 PM.

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    Re: Clinton condemns Syria 'atrocity' in Houla

    Quote Originally Posted by Medusa View Post
    the rebels are being supported by american goverment ,mya ,everybody in the middle east knows that .))
    "Everybody in the middle east" does not know that. What is known is that Iran is supporting Syria's government with weapons, which were confiscated before reaching their destination. We also know that Saudi's are supporting the rebels with money and arms, because they admitted they are. A lot of support for the rebels is coming, oddly enough, from Lebanon. That is what is "known". Your statement is just a throwaway accusation because you presume America is behind everything that happens in that part of the world. We're not.

    Quote Originally Posted by Medusa View Post
    connery ,we know that arabian spring was encouraged by american government, indirectly it led to lots of rebels resulting in death.because great middle east project needs such new administrations , new formations and maps in this region.
    Again, you don't "know" a thing. The Egyptian rebellion resulted directly from the success of the Tunisian rebellion, which America nor any other country was involved with. It was strictly an impromptu Tunisian protest that grew when one of the protestors deliberately set himself on fire. After the Egyptian rebellion started, most European countries and the US supported the people's bid for democracy. When the USA had such close ties with Mubarrak and the Egyptian military, why would we jeopardize that by trying to start a coup against them? We wouldn't, and we didn't. Because the Egyptian rebellion was a so-called "success", stability in the region has been shaken, we no longer have warm relations with Egypt's government or its military, and the "rebels" are more likely to be anti-American Islamists than anything else.

    Again, you point fingers at us out of habit, not out of a knowledge of fact.

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    Re: Clinton condemns Syria 'atrocity' in Houla

    Quote Originally Posted by Luna Tick View Post
    Sure, we have the right to say what we want. I didn't say we didn't. What I said is we won't be taken seriously thanks to our incredibly hypocritical polices.
    And what's hypocritical? Being the liberty loving leader of the free world, yet supporting dictators during the Cold War? Turning around and helping the people to take them out after they've outlived their expiration dates? Supporting twisted regimes against their people for the flow of oil? Or is it hypocritical to support the people rising up against their oppressors in the hopes of democracy providing that stability for oil? Or is hypocracy fighting against facism along side communism to free Europe just to condemn half of Europe behind a wall of oppression?

    My point is that people have a very sad way of defining what hypocracy, soveriegnty, and justification is. They pick and choose the most opportune time to grand stand and look the other way depending on the situation and on whether or not they agree with the activity.

    You are out of touch with the world's perspective. We will and are taken seriously because we are the power and they are all aware of that. The world didn't protest Iraq because they loved Saddam Hussein. They fear our unchecked power. Years later when France practically begged for America to assist with Libya, the entire effort hinged on whether or not we would participate. And when it comes time to deal with Syria and Iran, the world will look to America's technology, military experience and civilian leadership.

    Our policies are not "incredibly" hypocritical. However, the bit of hypocracy that does exist is due to a world that demands hypocracy out of governments. What is incredibly hypocritical is the American protestor who picks and chooses his/her time to stand by words like "hypocracy."

    And by the way, the vast majority of all civilian deaths in Afghanistan comes from Taliban/Al-Queda IEDs and attacks. The best thing to happen for Al-Queda wasn't the drone. It is the Americans ignorant ideals of what is going on and his/her willingness to assist Al-Queda in twisting the truth. And the truth is that the most deadliest thing in the Middle East is another Muslim.

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    Re: Clinton condemns Syria 'atrocity' in Houla

    Quote Originally Posted by DiAnna View Post
    "Everybody in the middle east" does not know that. What is known is that Iran is supporting Syria's government with weapons, which were confiscated before reaching their destination. We also know that Saudi's are supporting the rebels with money and arms, because they admitted they are. A lot of support for the rebels is coming, oddly enough, from Lebanon. That is what is "known". Your statement is just a throwaway accusation because you presume America is behind everything that happens in that part of the world. We're not.



    Again, you don't "know" a thing. The Egyptian rebellion resulted directly from the success of the Tunisian rebellion, which America nor any other country was involved with. It was strictly an impromptu Tunisian protest that grew when one of the protestors deliberately set himself on fire. After the Egyptian rebellion started, most European countries and the US supported the people's bid for democracy. When the USA had such close ties with Mubarrak and the Egyptian military, why would we jeopardize that by trying to start a coup against them? We wouldn't, and we didn't. Because the Egyptian rebellion was a so-called "success", stability in the region has been shaken, we no longer have warm relations with Egypt's government or its military, and the "rebels" are more likely to be anti-American Islamists than anything else.

    Again, you point fingers at us out of habit, not out of a knowledge of fact.
    dianna ,american government is not you )
    dont worry

    I had posted a map used by american army that divides turkey into two parts ,and nato also knows this map.what I mean is that ,of course if US is a world power ,I have the right to criticize it for trying to change all the maps here .) tell me which world power does such a thing?


    ı think you are not aware of great middle east project ,okay you may not know but I know

    like Egypt ,Turkey has been an ally of US but that map still exists and US government supports our both liberal and islamic government, because administrations and borderlines have to change according to new world order ,

    I will give you my link, please read.I am living in a region where no bird can fly without the awareness of US and you say I dont know anything ! please dont do..it is funny )


    http://www.debatepolitics.com/middle...t-project.html

    and let me say saudi arabia cant do anything without america's permission

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    Last edited by Medusa; 05-29-12 at 07:02 PM.
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    Re: Clinton condemns Syria 'atrocity' in Houla

    Quote Originally Posted by Medusa View Post
    ı think you are not aware of great middle east project ,okay you may not know but I know

    like Egypt ,Turkey has been an ally of US but that map still exists and US government supports our both liberal and islamic government, because administrations and borderlines have to change according to [COLOR="#FF0000"]new world order...
    As discussion of Lieutenant-Colonel Ralph Peters's concept is not really a part of this thread, I'll limit my comments on that matter. IMO, his concept is delusional. It would demoralize U.S. allies with the carving up of Turkey and Saudi Arabia, both of whom remain key U.S. partners. It would be a tinderbox with its ethnic demarcations. Far from representing the outlines of a "better Middle East," it would create the kind of situation that could be the Mideast's nightmare. It's obvious Lt.-Col. has little or no knowledge of the Mideast's history. Otherwise, he would not have devised such an unstable concept.
    Last edited by donsutherland1; 05-29-12 at 07:48 PM.

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    Re: Clinton condemns Syria 'atrocity' in Houla

    Quote Originally Posted by katsung47 View Post
    What about 911? The victims even were not political opposition. They were sacrifies for war.


    In this parallel universe, 911 was perpetrated by Islamic extremists. If, in yours, it was a part of a giant conspiracy by the US government, perhaps you could come and join the rest of us here in what we like to refer to as the "real world."
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