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Thread: 22 states, including Kentucky, join campaign finance fight

  1. #21
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    Re: 22 states, including Kentucky, join campaign finance fight

    Quote Originally Posted by vendur View Post
    Oh, it's much more profound than just hard news. Still, the hard news is that Obama is a terrible president, essentially. You can only candy coat things so much.. You can dip it in some chocolate and put some whip cream on top with some sprinkles, but a turd is still a turd. It could also be the left is as disappointed in him as anyone else. He basically has been the third term of GWB, including his penchant for passing unconstitutional laws.

    Interesting ... first you claim "blatant bias in the media" and then you seem to be admitting that this bias is found in sources other than "hard news"

    A "terrible president" - I don't think so but then I'm biased You are correct is saying the "left is as disappointed in him" but that would be primarily due to his acceptance of so much of the Republican agenda - which I see as harmful to the future of the nation - but that's just my opinion, some anonymous guy on the internets.

    My own knowledge of history and the actions and the words of the modern American right lead me to believe that if the radical right, the Ron Paul libertarian types, gain control of all three branches of the federal government it will accelerate the decline of this mighty country - and that could lead to some really bad consequences. The moderate middle won't have a chance even though they may deny their losses at first and folks like me will be thrown out of the country.
    “And I have no doubt that every new example will succeed, as every past one has done, in shewing that religion & Govt will both exist in greater purity, the less they are mixed together.”
    ~ James Madison, letter to Edward Livingston, July 10, 1822

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    Re: 22 states, including Kentucky, join campaign finance fight

    Quote Originally Posted by jamesrage View Post
    Is voting a unlimited right?
    Can you show me where it says you have the right to use money to influence candidates and voting?
    “Most people do not listen with the intent to understand; they listen with the intent to reply.”
    Stephen R. Covey


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    Re: 22 states, including Kentucky, join campaign finance fight

    Quote Originally Posted by jamesrage View Post
    Is voting a unlimited right? Its mentioned specifically as a right 5 times in the bill of rights but every time its to practically list what you can not use as a restriction.



    14th Amendment (1868): Regarding apportionment of Representatives.

    15th Amendment (1870): "The right of citizens of the United States to vote shall not be denied or abridged by the United States or by any State on account of race, color, or previous condition of servitude."

    19th Amendment (1920): "The right of citizens of the United States to vote shall not be denied or abridged by the United States or by any State on account of sex."

    23rd Amendment (1961): provides that residents of the District of Columbia can vote for the President and Vice-President.

    24th Amendment (1964): "The right of citizens of the United States to vote in any primary or other election for President or Vice President, for electors for President or Vice President, or for Senator or Representative in Congress, shall not be denied or abridged by the United States or any State by reason of failure to pay any poll tax or other tax."

    26th Amendment (1971): "The right of citizens of the United States, who are eighteen years of age or older, to vote shall not be denied or abridged by the United States or by any State on account of age."
    Where in the Constitution does it say that corporations are people? Or that the enumerated rights apply to organizations, as opposed to individuals?

    Doesn't it seem odd to you that a corporation would have the right to spend tens of millions of dollars to influence many thousands of votes, but not have the right to vote itself?

    We're in one of the places where you have to stand back and say, "wait a minute ... this **** doesn't make sense."
    "The necessaries of life occasion the great expense of the poor. They find it difficult to get food, and the greater part of their little revenue is spent in getting it. The luxuries and vanities of life occasion the principal expense of the rich, and a magnificent house embellishes and sets off to the best advantage all the other luxuries and vanities which they possess. ... It is not very unreasonable that the rich should contribute to the public expense, not only in proportion to their revenue, but something more than in that proportion."

    -- Adam Smith

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    Re: 22 states, including Kentucky, join campaign finance fight

    Quote Originally Posted by AdamT View Post
    Where in the Constitution does it say that corporations are people? Or that the enumerated rights apply to organizations, as opposed to individuals?

    Doesn't it seem odd to you that a corporation would have the right to spend tens of millions of dollars to influence many thousands of votes, but not have the right to vote itself?

    We're in one of the places where you have to stand back and say, "wait a minute ... this **** doesn't make sense."
    A group of people can't vote, they can only vote as individual persons. A group of people can freely associate and pool their money for a shared cause, be it to build the biggest pizza in the world or to elect a jackass who lies real good I fail to understand your confusion.

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    Re: 22 states, including Kentucky, join campaign finance fight

    Quote Originally Posted by vendur View Post
    A group of people can't vote
    Thanks for stating the obvious.
    "The necessaries of life occasion the great expense of the poor. They find it difficult to get food, and the greater part of their little revenue is spent in getting it. The luxuries and vanities of life occasion the principal expense of the rich, and a magnificent house embellishes and sets off to the best advantage all the other luxuries and vanities which they possess. ... It is not very unreasonable that the rich should contribute to the public expense, not only in proportion to their revenue, but something more than in that proportion."

    -- Adam Smith

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    Re: 22 states, including Kentucky, join campaign finance fight

    Quote Originally Posted by AdamT View Post
    Thanks for stating the obvious.
    Given your prior post, you seem to be confused by "the obvious" .

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    Re: 22 states, including Kentucky, join campaign finance fight

    Quote Originally Posted by vendur View Post
    A group of people can't vote, they can only vote as individual persons. A group of people can freely associate and pool their money for a shared cause, be it to build the biggest pizza in the world or to elect a jackass who lies real good I fail to understand your confusion.
    the biggest pizza in the world isn't going to effect which laws are passed, or how they get passed ect. Allowing the rich to influence elections in a country where he who spends wins is essentially allowing people to buy politicians and allows companies and the rich to dictate law. Our polliticians need to be working to do what is best for our country and for our people, but not their financiers.
    “Most people do not listen with the intent to understand; they listen with the intent to reply.”
    Stephen R. Covey


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    Re: 22 states, including Kentucky, join campaign finance fight

    Quote Originally Posted by muciti View Post
    the biggest pizza in the world isn't going to effect which laws are passed, or how they get passed ect. Allowing the rich to influence elections in a country where he who spends wins is essentially allowing people to buy politicians and allows companies and the rich to dictate law. Our polliticians need to be working to do what is best for our country and for our people, but not their financiers.
    The system before this only allowed the major media corporations to unduly affect elections. Now everyone has that right. Others can also enjoy the liberty of supporting their own candidates/issues without having to own a media empire. You do't see an issue with only the media having that power before? Some mix of fascism and aristocracy, replaced by good old capitalism.

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    Re: 22 states, including Kentucky, join campaign finance fight

    Since large campaign contributions are expected to buy future favors and access to various politicians, to me it's nothing short of legalized bribery.

    Until private funding is completely removed, replaced by governmental campaign dollars that are split equally among all candidates, only the rich and powerful will be able to afford public office. California was nearly saddled with a governor who literally used her own millions to try and purchase the office of governor. People who would be excellent public servents in state and federal legislatures are unable to run for those offices because they don't have million-dollar warchests until they find a benefactor who will finance them in return for future favors.

    As long as people and corporations can buy congress, corruption will continue to run rampant, and congress will represent their interests over the interests of the people and the nation as a whole.

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    Re: 22 states, including Kentucky, join campaign finance fight

    Quote Originally Posted by vendur View Post
    The system before this only allowed the major media corporations to unduly affect elections. Now everyone has that right. Others can also enjoy the liberty of supporting their own candidates/issues without having to own a media empire. You do't see an issue with only the media having that power before? Some mix of fascism and aristocracy, replaced by good old capitalism.
    that is not capitalism. i don't think any organization, media, or corporate or otherwise should be influencing anything with politics. I don't believe any politician should be taking any donations from anyone for any reason. When money becomes a factor it becomes a problem.
    “Most people do not listen with the intent to understand; they listen with the intent to reply.”
    Stephen R. Covey


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