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Catholics sue Obama over birth control mandate

Somerville said:
Yeah - it's really horrible how all those moochers and sinners have their lives improved and/or saved by the government ...
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To a certain degree, YES it is.
 
Somerville said:
Yeah - it's really horrible how all those moochers and sinners have their lives improved and/or saved by the government ... :roll:
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At the expense of someone else. :roll:

Lives are also improved and/or saved by organizations other than government ... :roll:
 
Aberration said:
This little tantrum is based on the assumption that those who do not want to fund care they morally object, are the same people that support foreign wars, or FAA or whatever and are forcing others to fund that which they morally object.

I don't want any of that other things either.

When the answer is tough ****, it means there is no good logic reason behind it.
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Everyone is forced to fund things they don't like or don't 'approve' or don't use. That's just the way it is. The reason for not liking it or not approving of it or not using it is irrelevant. We're forced to do what we don't want because the whole of society in some way benefits whether we do individually or not.
 
Somerville said:
thank you for showing your 'humanity'
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I've never claimed to have any. So far as I'm concerned the human species has no more value than the cockroach or plague rat at this point in history.
 
MoSurveyor said:
Everyone is forced to fund things they don't like or don't 'approve' or don't use. That's just the way it is. The reason for not liking it or not approving of it or not using it is irrelevant. We're forced to do what we don't want because the whole of society in some way benefits whether we do individually or not.
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Just the way it is, does not mean the way it has to be. I do not see society benefiting.
 
Aberration said:
Church is not a religion. It is a religious institution. Just as the Catholic hospital is.
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Then the government shouldn't be giving them money of any kind. Uncle Sam doesn't Tithe.
 
Aberration said:
Just the way it is, does not mean the way it has to be. I do not see society benefiting.
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Many don't see the benefit of a $800 billion/year military either. Should we give all those people their tax money back at the end of the year? Just fill out form IRS-NoMil and get a refund?!?
 
Aberration said:
At the expense of someone else. :roll:
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Would you prefer living in a world where it was everyone for their own self and family? You know - the way it was before there was anything known as 'society'

Lives are also improved and/or saved by organizations other than government ... :roll:
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Agreed but it does not negate the fact that many have been saved, helped and educated by government. The fact that there are charitable organisations doing good deeds does not mean the government can't also do good deeds. Having both is better for society than having only one or the other.
 
Tigger said:
Mo, what you're missing here is that certain items have a Constitutional Mandate. That means the Federal Government is allowed to legislate or make decisions about them by Constitutional Authority. However, medical care is not ANY of those things.
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Show me where Uncle Sam should be writing out a check to Catholic Church of XXX ...
 
Aberration said:
Church is not a religion. It is a religious institution. Just as the Catholic hospital is.
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No, a hospital is a hospital. There is no preaching. Doctors are not clergy and nurses are not nuns. In fact, a number of those who work there don't even hold that particular faith, and a smaller number don't believe at all. It is a hospital.
 
Aberration said:
At the expense of someone else. :roll:

Lives are also improved and/or saved by organizations other than government ... :roll:
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Yeah, many of them for a price that keeps getting higher every year.

And the ones that don't charge get a tax break, so Uncle Sam in effect rewards them for their good works, anyway - even if he isn't actually writing out a check to them.

But that's just not enough for the Church. If they really believed in what they're preaching they would treat the elderly for free just so they could avoid the other complications of government money.
 
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Boo Radley said:
No, a hospital is a hospital. There is no preaching. Doctors are not clergy and nurses are not nuns. In fact, a number of those who work there don't even hold that particular faith, and a smaller number don't believe at all. It is a hospital.
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That does not to describe the institution itself.
 
MoSurveyor said:
Show me where Uncle Sam should be writing out a check to Catholic Church of XXX ...
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They shouldn't be. Just like they shouldn't be writing one out to ANY medical facility or telling those facilities who they have to treat (ie... anyone who cannot PAY for the services).
 
Boo Radley said:
No, a hospital is a hospital. There is no preaching. Doctors are not clergy and nurses are not nuns. In fact, a number of those who work there don't even hold that particular faith, and a smaller number don't believe at all. It is a hospital.
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You do realize that under your concept, a large portion of the hospitals in this country would close their doors tomorrow, right?
 
Aberration said:
That does not to describe the institution itself.
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Actually it does. I worked at U of I, and they had a chapel. Not a church, not Catholic, but had a chapel. Nearly all hospitals do. Worked at Mercy Hospital as well. Catholic. They're chapel was no different. And both had multiple denominations represented in the chapel.And they functioned no different (other than having to placate doctors more) than the public hospital. Nothing about their function was religious. I'm sorry, but a hospital is a hospital and a church is a church. They are not the same.
 
Tigger said:
You do realize that under your concept, a large portion of the hospitals in this country would close their doors tomorrow, right?
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More hyperbole? Won't happen. Sorry.
 
Tigger said:
They shouldn't be. Just like they shouldn't be writing one out to ANY medical facility or telling those facilities who they have to treat (ie... anyone who cannot PAY for the services).
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Then you're out of the discussion as far as I'm concerned. Your opinion is noted.
 
Boo Radley said:
More hyperbole? Won't happen. Sorry.
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I disagree, Boo. If the government truly steps up and suggests that these Christian Churches (they're not all Catholic) have to either divorce themselves from the teachings of tee Faith that runs them or shut their doors I truly believe that you will see AT LEAST 60% of them shut their doors. At least long enough to re-license themselves as clinics or other PRIVATE CARE facilities that would not be subject to the Government regulations.
 
MoSurveyor said:
If Medicare or any other government agency is writing out a check that has Catholic Church of XXX then I'd say that's a violation of the separation of Church and State.
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Do you concede that a check made out to Notre Dame Health Services or St. Paul Hospital is not an attempt to establish a religion (as forbidden by the Constitution) as long as that check is payment for services to persons covered under Medicare or Medicaid?
 
MoSurveyor said:
Then you're out of the discussion as far as I'm concerned. Your opinion is noted.
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So because I do not simply allow the Government to continue picking my pocket in order to pay for UnConstitutional expenditures my opinion on this topic is not worthy of being heard? Interesting.
 
Blue_State said:
Does a church owned hospital pay taxes?
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They certainly shouldn't. No business enterprise ever pays taxies; they merely collect the taxes from their customers. The Obamacare provision to add another tax on medical devices is merely taking money out of one pocket and putting it into the other pocket (less a rake off for the President's friends and supporters).
 
Diogenes said:
They certainly shouldn't. No business enterprise ever pays taxies; they merely collect the taxes from their customers. The Obamacare provision to add another tax on medical devices is merely taking money out of one pocket and putting it into the other pocket (less a rake off for the President's friends and supporters).
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Do they pay income tax, excise tax or employment taxes?
 
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