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Thread: Catholics sue Obama over birth control mandate

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    Re: Catholics sue Obama over birth control mandate

    Quote Originally Posted by YoungConserv View Post
    Well it's logic if I give you money that pays for your basic operating procedures and you take the money you would have spent on that into performing abortions I am helping pay for abortions.

    By your logic....Giving my tax money to Catholic Hospitals, is allowing the Pope to order Filet Mignon for dinner tonight.

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    Re: Catholics sue Obama over birth control mandate

    Quote Originally Posted by centrist8491 View Post
    I hope you are right. At least no women will be Catholic.


    And your survey that you based this point on is where?

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    Re: Catholics sue Obama over birth control mandate

    Quote Originally Posted by MoSurveyor View Post
    Don't jerk me around on this issue. I was around before hospitals were required to take ER patients. I remember what it was like and I don't want to go back. I think if everyone saw people left in ER parking lots bleeding to death or their guts hanging out they would probably feel the same way.

    I could also point out that many other countries have managed to control costs. How did they manage to do that when we can't? Fewer regulations? Less government interference? LOL!

    That's because all social problems are inherent to the human animal. Even Christ said "The poor you will always have with you". Even if you're not Christian you must realize that this was written down millenia ago and that nothing has changed about the human animal in all that time. Why is it you can't see this? Why is it that you think government, or at least society as a whole - however you see that expressed - isn't responsible for these people to some extent? Shouldn't government protect the weak, lame, sick, very young, and very old? Shouldn't it be the vehicle whereby we protect ourselves from things that can bring us harm?
    ((And I'm not talking about those that don't want to work. Obviously most people DO want to work because there have been times when our unemployment was down to 4% and the businessmen hated every month of it!.))

    I'd bet most people that work at helping the poor would give up their job if they could eliminate poverty completely and for all time. Ditto for those that help the handicapped (eliminate the medical problem) and diseased (eliminate the disease) and so on. If you wouldn't do the same that says more about YOU and your social conscious than it does about bureaucrats.

    Sorry. The only logical result of full de-regulation and an open market is monopolies. A capitalist system has to have regulation just as every good engine needs a governor. Without it the engine runs wild, out of control, and blows up.

    As for WI, only people like you would project results from thin air. Did you get that off Walker's website???
    I never claimed they were evil - only you and your kind use that kind of stupid language, ignorance at it's finest! I wouldn't call a capitalist evil any more than I would call a cheetah running down a gazelle evil.

    Greedy and selfish, sure - it's what capitalism is all about! If you don't understand this or can't face the harsh reality of it then I suggest you ditch the green colored glasses and try again. Capitalism is fueled by greed and selfishness and it's why it works as well as it does. Business's ONLY goal is to make money. If a business isn't operating this way then someone should be fired.

    Bureaucrats are paid to be impartial and serve the public. They're not saints but many do like helping others for whatever reason. For others it's just a job that usually pays less than private but has fewer office politics and more job security. Ask the police and fire fighters why they're there. It's the same for most public servants.

    It's amazing the bull**** some people will eat. You can always bow before your insurance company Gods and ask for insurance against the Death Panels. All good capitalists are money whores, they'll take the bet.
    In the first bolded statement you make the assumption that the poor being with us always, invites the premise that people should be forced to take care of them. In the second bolded statement you are half right, bureaucrats are paid to serve the public (generally). The problem with your philosophy on the public good is that you feel that everyone thinks that the solution is always to be found through a government mandate, and most likely though the federal govt. This is not the case. Many conservatives feel that certain things should be mandated by the fed govt, and those are spelled out in the US Constitution. Consequently that leaves all remaining things up to other methods of solution, that is state and local govts; and last but not least, private contracts/relationships/agreements (i.e., non-govt).
    The latter is the preferred method.
    Last edited by American; 06-05-12 at 10:33 AM.
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    Re: Catholics sue Obama over birth control mandate

    Quote Originally Posted by centrist8491 View Post
    I hope you are right. At least no women will be Catholic.
    The priests won't mind. They prefer boys anyway.
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    Re: Catholics sue Obama over birth control mandate

    Quote Originally Posted by MoSurveyor View Post
    Why is it that you think government, or at least society as a whole - however you see that expressed - isn't responsible for these people to some extent? Shouldn't government protect the weak, lame, sick, very young, and very old? Shouldn't it be the vehicle whereby we protect ourselves from things that can bring us harm?
    Fine. Then let the government pay for it. To require individual hospitals and medical personnel to provide the services without compensation merely means that those costs have to be shifted to paying customers. That sort of Robin Hood Socialism is downright fraud, and is a major cause of the cost problem.

    Sorry. The only logical result of full de-regulation and an open market is monopolies. A capitalist system has to have regulation just as every good engine needs a governor. Without it the engine runs wild, out of control, and blows up.
    Fail. Monopolies (single supplier) and monopsonies (single buyer) are the absence of competition, and both are a Bad Thing. Even a nominally virtuous idea fails quickly if there is no competition to keep it in the real world. When the government decides what insurance policies must cover, and what drugs and procedures may be used, the government becomes no better than a private monopoly.

    Capitalism is fueled by greed and selfishness and it's why it works as well as it does. Business's ONLY goal is to make money. If a business isn't operating this way then someone should be fired.
    In a free market, any enterprise will fail unless it provides a good or service that people want to buy. That's why you don't see many Yugos on the road.

    Bureaucrats are paid to be impartial and serve the public. They're not saints but many do like helping others for whatever reason.
    Like GSA execs, for example?

    For others it's just a job that usually pays less than private but has fewer office politics and more job security. Ask the police and fire fighters why they're there. It's the same for most public servants.
    Do you include the KGB, SS and Stasi in your thinking?

    It's amazing the bull**** some people will eat. You can always bow before your insurance company Gods and ask for insurance against the Death Panels. All good capitalists are money whores, they'll take the bet.
    And it's amazing to me how some people can place all their faith in the good offices of the government, even after a visit to the DMV.
    "We the people are the rightful masters of both Congress & the courts, not to overthrow the Constitution, but overthrow the men who pervert the Constitution."
    - Abraham Lincoln

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    Re: Catholics sue Obama over birth control mandate

    Quote Originally Posted by centrist8491 View Post
    I hope you are right. At least no women will be Catholic.
    No need to repeat a falsehood. See post #20, copied below:

    Quote Originally Posted by nota bene View Post
    "The Roman Catholic Church continues to see its membership increase in the U.S., while most Protestant churches are shrinking, according to an annual report by the National Council of Churches."

    Catholic church growing, Baptist and mainline Protestant numbers decline | Believe It or Not | a Chron.com blog
    Last edited by nota bene; 06-05-12 at 12:18 PM.

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    Re: Catholics sue Obama over birth control mandate

    Quote Originally Posted by 99percenter View Post
    Shame on them indeed. They cover viagra but won't cover contraception for women. I think the catholic church is just being antiwomen.
    Of course they are. The Church's history with women says it all. And they continue their inane traditions to this day.

    Did you know that the Catholic Church now allows some priests to be married? I'm sure any day now they will afford the same luxury to nuns. Not.

    Seriously. If a Lutheran Minister, who is married, converts to Catholocism, he may stay married.

    They are having a shortage of priests and nuns, so therefore they allow men to stay married. Do they allow women who are married to convert, become nuns and stay married? Of course not.

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    Re: Catholics sue Obama over birth control mandate

    Quote Originally Posted by nota bene View Post
    "The Roman Catholic Church continues to see its membership increase in the U.S., while most Protestant churches are shrinking, according to an annual report by the National Council of Churches."

    Catholic church growing, Baptist and mainline Protestant numbers decline | Believe It or Not | a Chron.com blog
    Quote Originally Posted by Top Cat View Post
    Of course they are. The Church's history with women says it all. And they continue their inane traditions to this day.

    Did you know that the Catholic Church now allows some priests to be married? I'm sure any day now they will afford the same luxury to nuns. Not.

    Seriously. If a Lutheran Minister, who is married, converts to Catholocism, he may stay married.

    They are having a shortage of priests and nuns, so therefore they allow men to stay married. Do they allow women who are married to convert, become nuns and stay married? Of course not.
    You don't seem to understand that nuns are already married. Really, you should watch that old Audrey Hepburn movie The Nun's Story.

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    Re: Catholics sue Obama over birth control mandate

    Quote Originally Posted by nota bene View Post
    You don't seem to understand that nuns are already married. Really, you should watch that old Audrey Hepburn movie The Nun's Story.

    Some, not all, orders even have the sisters wear wedding rings
    “And I have no doubt that every new example will succeed, as every past one has done, in shewing that religion & Govt will both exist in greater purity, the less they are mixed together.”
    ~ James Madison, letter to Edward Livingston, July 10, 1822

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    Re: Catholics sue Obama over birth control mandate

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    NO, it isn't. It has nothing to do with the Church. It has to with insurance, and people who are not clergy working at places that are not churches. They don't qualify to be seen different than anyone else. I'm sorry j, but you're wrong as to what this is about. There is no seroaration of hospitals and state. No separation of schools and state. That does not exist.

    We'll have to agree to disagree on this. I see it as governmental bullying plain and simple. Clearly, yourself and other libs have no regard for religious freedom, so you see it as a simple business decision. What ever you tell yourself to get through the night is not my concern. You think I am wrong, and I conversely think you are, but the fact of the matter is that BC is relatively cheap enough for people to afford already, it doesn't need to be forced through insurance coverage.

    The other fact of this is that it is an election year distraction that is designed to take the attention off the failure of the Obama first term. And that is easy enough to see.

    j-mac
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