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Thread: Catholics sue Obama over birth control mandate

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    Re: Catholics sue Obama over birth control mandate

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    They pay for insurance, not birth control. The person insured decides if they get or use birth control, not the church.

    How about abortion, should obama mandate that ins companies the church uses pay for Abortiob? I mean the insured "gets to decide".... right?
    Let evil swiftly befall those who have wrongly condemned us

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    Re: Catholics sue Obama over birth control mandate

    Quote Originally Posted by ReverendHellh0und View Post
    How about abortion, should obama mandate that ins companies the church uses pay for Abortiob? I mean the insured "gets to decide".... right?
    They don't pay for that either. The employee does. All the church pays for is insurance. If their people are getting abortions, or using birth control, they have another larger problem. The insurance, like the pay check, is the employees compensation and not the church paying for anything directly. How the employee uses the compensation is up to the employee.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

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    Re: Catholics sue Obama over birth control mandate

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    They don't pay for that either. The employee does. All the church pays for is insurance. If their people are getting abortions, or using birth control, they have another larger problem. The insurance, like the pay check, is the employees compensation and not the church paying for anything directly. How the employee uses the compensation is up to the employee.



    Does the church have the option to provide health insurance or are they mandated to?


    Lets get that out of the way.,
    Let evil swiftly befall those who have wrongly condemned us

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    Re: Catholics sue Obama over birth control mandate

    Quote Originally Posted by ReverendHellh0und View Post
    Does the church have the option to provide health insurance or are they mandated to?


    Lets get that out of the way.,
    They don't have to provide health insurance to my knowledge. But it is comepnsation just as pay is. There is no real difference.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

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    Re: Catholics sue Obama over birth control mandate

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    They don't have to provide health insurance to my knowledge. But it is comepnsation just as pay is. There is no real difference.


    ahh so, this catholic organization, decided to provide thier employees with a health care plan, a plan, that meets thier criteria of morals and beliefs. A voluntary plan, yes? in a voluntary job, yes? in a religious organization, yes?




    Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.



    Maybe if the FEDGOV wants to trample on thier constitutional rights, they just drop offering health care all together, yes?
    Let evil swiftly befall those who have wrongly condemned us

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    Re: Catholics sue Obama over birth control mandate

    Quote Originally Posted by ReverendHellh0und View Post
    ahh so, this catholic organization, decided to provide thier employees with a health care plan, a plan, that meets thier criteria of morals and beliefs. A voluntary plan, yes? in a voluntary job, yes? in a religious organization, yes?




    Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.



    Maybe if the FEDGOV wants to trample on thier constitutional rights, they just drop offering health care all together, yes?
    Again, insurance is volunetary. No one is making them do anything. It is simply aprt of the policy. The policy belongs not to the church, but to the employee. The church merely pays for or contributes to as part of compensation. The church is required to pay the employee, often at least minimum wage, but once in the employee's hands, the employee decides. As I have said repeatedly, the compensation is the employees, just as his or her pay is. Only the employee can decide to have an abortion or use contracepties.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

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    Re: Catholics sue Obama over birth control mandate

    Interesting Forbes article. Perhaps the President didn't expect "Option C":

    The Audacity of Power: President Obama Vs. The Catholic Church - Forbes

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    Re: Catholics sue Obama over birth control mandate

    this stupid issue again????

    the solution is simple: let religious institutions demand that all services for abortion, birth control, male-circumcision, Viagra, Propecia, vasectomies, hysterectamies, and full-body massages be covered by an optional-rider that the subscriber can choose or choose NOT to purchase. that way, the insurance provided by the employers does NOT pay for these things.

    done and done.
    Last edited by Thunder; 05-22-12 at 05:05 PM.

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    Re: Catholics sue Obama over birth control mandate

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    Again, insurance is volunetary. No one is making them do anything. It is simply aprt of the policy. The policy belongs not to the church, but to the employee. The church merely pays for or contributes to as part of compensation. The church is required to pay the employee, often at least minimum wage, but once in the employee's hands, the employee decides. As I have said repeatedly, the compensation is the employees, just as his or her pay is. Only the employee can decide to have an abortion or use contracepties.

    So it's voluntary for everyone but the church who offers it. pay is pay, healthcare is a benefit offered at the pleasure of the employer. the employer should be free to say, it's against thier religion, being a church and all, to do things that religion thinks is immorral.


    The catholic church being against contraception is dumb, it's thier right to be dumb, as it is your right not to work there, and not use thier health insurance that does not cover your birth control.


    Some insurance covers massage. Should we mandate that all insurance covers massage, I choose to get a massage as I may choose to have birth control, Is it the governments business telling a church how to practice thier "free exercise therof"?


    Not unless you are some anti-constitutional statists, I can't see how.
    Let evil swiftly befall those who have wrongly condemned us

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    Re: Catholics sue Obama over birth control mandate

    Quote Originally Posted by ReverendHellh0und View Post
    So it's voluntary for everyone but the church who offers it. pay is pay, healthcare is a benefit offered at the pleasure of the employer. the employer should be free to say, it's against thier religion, being a church and all, to do things that religion thinks is immorral.


    The catholic church being against contraception is dumb, it's thier right to be dumb, as it is your right not to work there, and not use thier health insurance that does not cover your birth control.


    Some insurance covers massage. Should we mandate that all insurance covers massage, I choose to get a massage as I may choose to have birth control, Is it the governments business telling a church how to practice thier "free exercise therof"?


    Not unless you are some anti-constitutional statists, I can't see how.
    No, like pay, is just part of the compensaion, not pleasure. The church offers a certain salary, not one dictatied outside of mimimum wage. And to help, the also compensate with insurance, as part of the salary packet (as the church explained to me whe I worked at one of their hospitals -- it was part of the salary). As such, it is up to me on how I use it and not the church. It isn't a pleasure, and more than it is a pleasure to me 20 dollars an hour as opposed to the eight dollars that is minimum wage.

    So, no, the government is telling the church how to practice anything. Only like minimum wage, the compensation will include the option for the employee. Only the employee can make the decision whether to use the option. The church plays no role in the decision.
    Last edited by Boo Radley; 05-22-12 at 05:18 PM.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

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