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Veterans symbolically discard service medals at anti-NATO rally

dirtpoorchris said:
Rosa Parks was only 1 woman.
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You missed the point completely. Rosa Parks didn't volunteer to be black in a society where blacks were treated unequal. Rosa Parks actually had a complaint. And it wasn't to "Save the Whales" or "Bring the Troops Home," or any other protestor's fad of the day that seeks her example to legitimize the complaint.

These "50" are not victims. They each chose to go to war by enlisting in the Army or Marine Corps during a time of war....and now bitch about having to go to war. They are not victims of corporate greed. They did not join the Air Force or Coast Guard where they could have gambled sucessfully and spent their four year contract inside the U.S.....or at worst, aboard a very safe main base in the war zone. And they didn't enlist with the idea that the war was going to end the very day they graduated Boot Training. But now they protest? They are fools. They got what they asked for and now presume to pretend that they were somehow led astray or mistreated.

By the way....11 years after 9/11, what have protestors managed to do about the war? I guess the "1" hasn't come out of the crowd yet to make that difference. We left Iraq when it was time and we will leave Afghanistan in the same manner. Protestors only accomplish when they have a legitimate social complaint. Otherwise, its just the noise of the frustrated and confused.
 
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I tend not to believe these stories too much given some of the "veterans" the left paraded around, If they are true, I hope the injured ones are getting proper treatment and the help we all owe them.
 
TheDemSocialist said:
The person that made the offer was Taliban's ambassador to Pakistan, Abdul Salam Zaeef...

U.S. rejects Taliban offer to try bin Laden - CNN
U.S. Rejects New Taliban Offer - ABC News
Bush rejects Taliban offer to hand Bin Laden over | World news | guardian.co.uk
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From your links....

The White House on Sunday rejected an offer from Afghanistan's ruling Taliban to try suspected terrorist leader Osama bin Laden in Afghanistan under Islamic law.
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The United States today rejected yet another offer by Afghanistan's ruling Taliban to turn over Osama bin Laden for trial in a third country if the U.S. presents evidence against bin Laden and stops air attacks.
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The offer came a day after the Taliban's supreme leader rebuffed Bush's "second chance" for the Islamic militia to surrender Bin Laden to the US.

Mullah Mohammed Omar said there was no move to "hand anyone over".
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You should be more honest about this. The Taliban never offerred to turn Osama Bin Laden over to the U.S. That's what we wanted and that's what they avoided. They offerred to try him themselves. They offerred to turn him over to a third Islamic government for a trial IF the U.S. could provide proof that he was behind it. They wanted us to compromise with them and allow Islamic Law try him out of our reach.
 
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MSgt said:
You missed the point completely. Rosa Parks didn't volunteer to be black in a society where blacks were treated unequal. Rosa Parks actually had a complaint. And it wasn't to "Save the Whales" or "Bring the Troops Home," or any other protestor's fad of the day that seeks her example to legitimize the complaint.

These "50" are not victims. They each chose to go to war by enlisting in the Army or Marine Corps during a time of war....and now bitch about having to go to war. They are not victims of corporate greed. They did not join the Air Force or Coast Guard where they could have gambled sucessfully and spent their four year contract inside the U.S.....or at worst, aboard a very safe main base in the war zone. And they didn't enlist with the idea that the war was going to end the very day they graduated Boot Training. But now they protest? They are fools. They got what they asked for and now presume to pretend that they were somehow led astray or mistreated.

By the way....11 years after 9/11, what have protestors managed to do about the war? I guess the "1" hasn't come out of the crowd yet to make that difference. We left Iraq when it was time and we will leave Afghanistan in the same manner. Protestors only accomplish when they have a legitimate social complaint. Otherwise, its just the noise of the frustrated and confused.
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They didn't volunteer to be police men in non declared wars.
 
MSgt said:
These "50" are not victims.
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Who is saying they are victims? They left the service with different beliefs than they had when they entered. That is what happens as adults. Our life experiences shape who we are and what we believe. And war is a hell of a life experience. It doesn’t affect us all the same way, but it has an effect. They aren’t claiming victimhood. They are claiming the government’s actions are wrong and they are now saying they realize THEY were wrong for participating. They are publically stating they were wrong and are returning the commendations they received for the actions they took. You may disagree with them, but let’s not go misrepresenting what they are saying.
 
dirtpoorchris said:
They didn't volunteer to be police men in non declared wars.
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That might not have been what they wanted to do, but they knew that that could be one of their missions. If they didn't, then they're just stupid.
 
apdst said:
That might not have been what they wanted to do, but they knew that that could be one of their missions. If they didn't, then they're just stupid.
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So....in your opinion the kids should be proud for being jack booted enforcers iñ non declared wars?
 
You should be more honest about this. The Taliban never offerred to turn Osama Bin Laden over to the U.S. That's what we wanted and that's what they avoided. They offerred to try him themselves. They offerred to turn him over to a third Islamic government for a trial IF the U.S. could provide proof that he was behind it. They wanted us to compromise with them and allow Islamic Law try him out of our reach.
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This is false. Prior to the invasion they did change their position and offered to hand him over to the US government.
 
dirtpoorchris said:
They didn't volunteer to be police men in non declared wars.
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Sure they did. Don't insult them or allow them to pretend they were victims. They joined for the adventure and for the benefits. After the Cold War ended, our troops deployed to Somalia and Bosnia. During the Cold War, we sent our troops to Korea and Vietnam. We have Marines stationed in over 185 embassies around the globe. Our Navies patrol every ocean and every major sea port, with Marine forces ready to strike anything at any given time. Our Air Force patrol the skies and take high altitude photos of virtually every nation.

They volunteered knowing exactly what we do. And since we have been at "non declared war" all over the world (Afganistan and Iraq featured) since 9/11, they have no right complaining about volunteering.
 
Fubar said:
So....in your opinion the kids should be proud for being jack booted enforcers iñ non declared wars?
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Were they "declared" prior to their enlistment? Stop using their falsehoods.
 
Sarcogito said:
Who is saying they are victims? They left the service with different beliefs than they had when they entered.
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I'm not misrepresenting anything. You are allowing them to get away with face value bitching because the moment is peaking to them. These are people who should have never enlisted in the first place. If they were so stupid as to not know they were heading over during a time of war, then they got what they deserved for volunteering. Nothing about these wars changed prior to their enlistments. They are acting like victims.

And adults would have less mind shifts if they actually invested some thinking into situations instead of blindly following along with Hollywood's, a politician's, and the media's preachings.
 
Khayembii Communique said:
This is false. Prior to the invasion they did change their position and offered to hand him over to the US government.
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I do not recall. I was busy working up to kick their asses for revenge.

But it really doesn't matter. 9/11 was a symptom. Incarcerating a single individual over the event wasn't enough. If it were, then we would have just bombed out an aspirin factory. This is regional. Always had been. The protest has always conflicted with itself.
 
donsutherland1 said:
Al Qaeda means "The Base."



Afghanistan's Taliban-led government sheltered Osama Bin Laden and Al Qaeda, permitted them to use Afghanistan for planning operations, and refused to cooperate with the U.S. after 9/11 to bring Osama Bin Laden and Al Qaeda to justice. Afghanistan is a classic case of a "just" war.
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Actually, that isn't entirely true, specifically that last part.

A senior Taliban leader said Sunday that the Islamic militia would be willing to hand over Osama bin Laden to a third country if the United States halts the bombing of Afghanistan and provides evidence against him.

President Bush quickly rejected the offer.
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(Bush Rejects Taliban Bin Laden Offer)


An aide to the former Taleban foreign minister, Wakil Ahmad Muttawakil, has revealed that he was sent to warn American diplomats and the United Nations that Osama bin Laden was due to launch a huge attack on American soil.

Neither organisation heeded the warning, which was given just weeks before the 11 September attacks.

The aide said he had urged the Americans to launch a military campaign against al-Qaeda but was told that this was politically impossible.
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(BBC NEWS | South Asia | Taleban 'warned US of huge attack')

The ninth day of air attacks came after Bush rejected Taliban Deputy Prime Minister Haji Abdul Kabir's offer yesterday to surrender bin Laden to a third country in exchange for stopping the bombing and showing proof of the Saudi exile's guilt in the Sept. 11 terrorist attacks on the World Trade Center and the Pentagon.
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(Intense daylight bombing raids / Bush rejects new Taliban offer to send bin Laden to 3rd country)

Thus, the Taliban did offer to give up bin Laden, if the US gave evidence that he was linked to 9/11, which I don't think is unreasonable.
 
Didn't John Kerry toss some medals of his once?
 
Mr. Invisible said:
Thus, the Taliban did offer to give up bin Laden, if the US gave evidence that he was linked to 9/11, which I don't think is unreasonable.
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But not to the US, the chief victim of the crime. Thus it was perfectly reasonable for the US to go after him wherever he was, and the Taliban merely offered themselves up as collateral damage. No loss to the world.
 
Diogenes said:
But not to the US, the chief victim of the crime. Thus it was perfectly reasonable for the US to go after him wherever he was, and the Taliban merely offered themselves up as collateral damage. No loss to the world.
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They offered to give them up to a third country and we all know that that 3rd country would've given bin Laden to the US. Thus, it was not reasonable to deny their offer.
 
apdst said:
That might not have been what they wanted to do, but they knew that that could be one of their missions. If they didn't, then they're just stupid.
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I dunno man. Right after 9/11 and those beheading videos I almost signed up. In retrospect thank God for fool's luck. If they tried sending me into non-decraled warzones I'd be do everything I can to get out. I prolly would have been fragged by tattling on the first person who needlessly took a civ's life.
 
dirtpoorchris said:
Veterans symbolically discard service medals at anti-NATO rally - Yahoo! News



I think its time to bring our troops home and end these wars. What about you? Anyone think its disrespectful they played taps?
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I'm for bringing everybody home as well. I think though that the covert operations should continue. Keeping them jumping is one of the best defenses we can use now.

As for those countries where drones are flying and ops are killing wanted guys; those countries have their choices as well; Pakistan being one of them, but such countries shelter and ignore those guys, so they're doing nothing to help themselves either.
 
mac said:
They volunteered to do whatever the country asked of them.
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They don't call it "signing your life away" for nothing.
 
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