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Thread: House OKs $642 billion defense bill

  1. #21
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    Re: House OKs $642 billion defense bill

    Quote Originally Posted by AdamT View Post
    $8 billion is $8 billion more spending than Republicans PROMISED to cut when they threatened to destroy the full faith and credit of the U.S., purportedly because they were so concerned about overspending.

    It's also about 16 times more than the government lost in the Solyndra bankruptcy that Republicans have obsessed over.
    Wish you would stop with the trite partisan responses. The sad part is for whatever reason I actually get the sense you are better than this. Not sure lying about the opposing party's position on defense spending would be considered by many to be artful "political debate".

    It is somewhat interesting that you are able to get this response from someone who feels we can/should defense spending by at least $100 billion a year. Just that your arguments seem so superficial.

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    Re: House OKs $642 billion defense bill

    Quote Originally Posted by washunut View Post
    Wish you would stop with the trite partisan responses. The sad part is for whatever reason I actually get the sense you are better than this. Not sure lying about the opposing party's position on defense spending would be considered by many to be artful "political debate".

    It is somewhat interesting that you are able to get this response from someone who feels we can/should defense spending by at least $100 billion a year. Just that your arguments seem so superficial.
    Here's a helpful suggestion: why don't you try to back up your assertions with facts, and stop pretending that there is no difference between Republicans and Democrats. I don't know what's happened to you in the last few months, but you really need to change your lean to "Slightly conservative".

    The fact is, as the article linked in the OP states, that Republicans broke the deal the cut last year by approving $8 billion more in defense spending than they originally agreed to. If you want to spin that you should at least make an effort.
    "The necessaries of life occasion the great expense of the poor. They find it difficult to get food, and the greater part of their little revenue is spent in getting it. The luxuries and vanities of life occasion the principal expense of the rich, and a magnificent house embellishes and sets off to the best advantage all the other luxuries and vanities which they possess. ... It is not very unreasonable that the rich should contribute to the public expense, not only in proportion to their revenue, but something more than in that proportion."

    -- Adam Smith

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    Re: House OKs $642 billion defense bill

    Quote Originally Posted by Wiseone View Post
    You know in the past when a war ended the defense budget actually dropped.
    In the past we made the foolish mistake of thinking that war actually ends, Wiseone. The only way for war to ever end is for there to be only one side left. Until that happens there will always be war and the truly wise people understand that unless one is prepared for war at all times, you are subject to losing the next one.

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    Re: House OKs $642 billion defense bill

    if we're going to police the world, we need a world tax to reimburse us. a world police force, however, would require oversight more significant than the UN.

    i'd argue that we should end police actions and just be a nation. there's a lot of nation building to be done right here at home.

    honor commitments to veterans, keep a reserve force, maintain equipment, and cut a lot of the rest. i think we've passed the point of diminishing returns when it comes to military spending.

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    Re: House OKs $642 billion defense bill

    Quote Originally Posted by AdamT View Post
    Here's a helpful suggestion: why don't you try to back up your assertions with facts, and stop pretending that there is no difference between Republicans and Democrats. I don't know what's happened to you in the last few months, but you really need to change your lean to "Slightly conservative".

    The fact is, as the article linked in the OP states, that Republicans broke the deal the cut last year by approving $8 billion more in defense spending than they originally agreed to. If you want to spin that you should at least make an effort.
    I am not going to change my lifelong leanings because so many fellow party members have turned into lemmings for this administration. The Democrat party used to rail against deficits of Reagan and the Bushes, remember Clinton. My sense if he could really speak his mind he would reject trillion dollar deficits with no end in sight.

    I have acknowledged that the defense budget in my view should be cut by at least $100 billion a year. I did go to a town hall meeting with by congressperson and told him I would not vote for him ever again if he voted to add troops in Afghanistan. I will wait for a real democrat to take him on in a primary.

    That being said going back and forth with faux outrage about some tiny change to the defense budget seems stupid.

    To keep calling one side or the other liars seems counterproductive, yet it seems that is all we get from this site.

    Perhaps what has happened over the last couple of months is the frustration that an internet site, is probably a silly place to think there can be reasoned debate. Although from time to time there are some great nuggets.

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    Re: House OKs $642 billion defense bill

    Quote Originally Posted by washunut View Post
    I am not going to change my lifelong leanings because so many fellow party members have turned into lemmings for this administration. The Democrat party used to rail against deficits of Reagan and the Bushes, remember Clinton. My sense if he could really speak his mind he would reject trillion dollar deficits with no end in sight.

    I have acknowledged that the defense budget in my view should be cut by at least $100 billion a year. I did go to a town hall meeting with by congressperson and told him I would not vote for him ever again if he voted to add troops in Afghanistan. I will wait for a real democrat to take him on in a primary.

    That being said going back and forth with faux outrage about some tiny change to the defense budget seems stupid.

    To keep calling one side or the other liars seems counterproductive, yet it seems that is all we get from this site.

    Perhaps what has happened over the last couple of months is the frustration that an internet site, is probably a silly place to think there can be reasoned debate. Although from time to time there are some great nuggets.
    There's nothing faux about my outrage, and the amount isn't at the heart of it. My outrage centers on the fact that Republicans played Russian roulette with the full faith and credit of the United States, purportedly because they were concerned about spending, then finally agreed to automatic cuts at the 12th hour, and then reneged on the deal they made. I honestly don't know how anyone could NOT be outraged by it. It's bad enough that the right has become focused on jamming up Obama, as opposed to actually dealing with our problems. It's to the point now that they consider "moderate" and "compromise" dirty words; they've made it so difficult to accomplish anything that they had to agree SOMETHING even if a compromise couldn't be reached. And then they couldn't even stick to that SOMETHING. It's just unbelievable.

    And that's not even considering the fact that they want to pay for this agreement-busting defense spending (including a star wars missile shield for the East Coast!) by cutting trivial **** like FOOD STAMPS for two million people and cuts to health care and other programs for the needy. I'd swear this was a put on by The Onion, but incredibly it's true. What will they do next? Tie an orphan to the train tracks to extract money for a millionaire tax cut?

    Last edited by AdamT; 05-21-12 at 02:09 PM.
    "The necessaries of life occasion the great expense of the poor. They find it difficult to get food, and the greater part of their little revenue is spent in getting it. The luxuries and vanities of life occasion the principal expense of the rich, and a magnificent house embellishes and sets off to the best advantage all the other luxuries and vanities which they possess. ... It is not very unreasonable that the rich should contribute to the public expense, not only in proportion to their revenue, but something more than in that proportion."

    -- Adam Smith

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    Re: House OKs $642 billion defense bill

    Quote Originally Posted by AdamT View Post
    There's nothing faux about my outrage, and the amount isn't at the heart of it. My outrage centers on the fact that Republicans played Russian roulette with the full faith and credit of the United States, purportedly because they were concerned about spending, then finally agreed to automatic cuts at the 12th hour, and then reneged on the deal they made. I honestly don't know how anyone could NOT be outraged by it. It's bad enough that the right has become focused on jamming up Obama, as opposed to actually dealing with our problems. It's to the point now that they consider "moderate" and "compromise" dirty words; they've made it so difficult to accomplish anything that they had to agree SOMETHING even if a compromise couldn't be reached. And then they couldn't even stick to that SOMETHING. It's just unbelievable.

    And that's not even considering the fact that they want to pay for this agreement-busting defense spending (including a star wars missile shield for the East Coast!) by cutting trivial **** like FOOD STAMPS for two million people and cuts to health care and other programs for the needy. I'd swear this was a put on by The Onion, but incredibly it's true. What will they do next? Tie an orphan to the train tracks to extract money for a millionaire tax cut?


    Perhaps it is time for a viable third party if that is possible. Maybe a Bloomberg who does not have his religion problems and probably not a mayor of NYC.

    None of this crap seems to make sense to me. I don't believe that adding 3% to the tax rate of "job creators" will tank the economy, nor do I believe that you can add 30 million people to an already dysfunctional health care system and somehow that does not become a huge federal cost. I can't believe wanting to cut defense spending but applauding a president that adds, what 80K troops to Afghanistan. I can't believe either party wants tax " fairness" but can't get around to a fix on carried interest. The list goes on and on.

  8. #28
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    Re: House OKs $642 billion defense bill

    Simple question - Do any Conservatives feel this is NOT be a hypocritical move by the House Republicans? If not, why?
    Last edited by Tettsuo; 05-21-12 at 04:35 PM.
    A man without fear is a fool, a man that succumbs to his fear is a coward and a brave man acknowledges fear yet presses on.
    http://soulinblackandwhite.blogspot.com/

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