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Thread: Vermont first state to ban fracking

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    Re: Vermont first state to ban fracking

    Quote Originally Posted by jamesrage View Post
    With all the fears of that stuff leaking and contaminating the land and ground water I really don't blame Vermont. Its not like you can send someone down there to clean it up if it does contaminate the area underground.
    What about the Mole Men?
    You know the time is right to take control, we gotta take offense against the status quo

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    Re: Vermont first state to ban fracking

    Quote Originally Posted by sawyerloggingon View Post
    Their low energy consumption is due to low population but you have some interesting stats on their energy reserves. Apparently their ban on fracking is a political stunt that will have no real consequence. I still think though that any state that refuses to help in getting the US off Arab fuel dependence with an anti energy production policy such as Calif refusing to drill off shore or Vermont making an anti fracking statement should be charged a NIMBY tax at the pump. Ten cents a gallon maybe that would be distributed to states that are willing to step up and help with our energy situation.
    I agree with your assessment that this fracking thing is a stunt, but to be fair to Vermont, I disagree with the rest of your post. They seem to have taken steps to get off of fossil fuels as much as they can...not by producing something they don't have, but by obtaining their energy from other sources. Nuclear energy mainly.

    I've never been one to support punitive measures against a State just because I don't like their choices.
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    Re: Vermont first state to ban fracking

    Yep, it's amazing how quickly that whole "states' rights" thing goes by the wayside when it's a state doing something conservatives don't like.
    "The necessaries of life occasion the great expense of the poor. They find it difficult to get food, and the greater part of their little revenue is spent in getting it. The luxuries and vanities of life occasion the principal expense of the rich, and a magnificent house embellishes and sets off to the best advantage all the other luxuries and vanities which they possess. ... It is not very unreasonable that the rich should contribute to the public expense, not only in proportion to their revenue, but something more than in that proportion."

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    Re: Vermont first state to ban fracking

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    What about the Mole Men?
    There is no such thing as mole men.What do mole men have to do with fracking?
    "A nation can survive its fools, and even the ambitious. But it cannot survive treason from within. An enemy at the gates is less formidable, for he is known and carries his banner openly. But the traitor moves amongst those within the gate freely, his sly whispers rustling through all the alleys, heard in the very halls of government itself. For the traitor appears not a traitor; he speaks in accents familiar to his victims, and he wears their face and their arguments, he appeals to the baseness that lies deep in the hearts of all men. He rots the soul of a nation, he works secretly and unknown in the night to undermine the pillars of the city, he infects the body politic so that it can no longer resist. A murder is less to fear"

    Cicero Marcus Tullius

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    Re: Vermont first state to ban fracking

    Quote Originally Posted by AdamT View Post
    Yep, it's amazing how quickly that whole "states' rights" thing goes by the wayside when it's a state doing something conservatives don't like.
    If that doesn't go both ways, then I don't know what does.
    We went from sticks and stones may break my bones but words will never hurt me to safe spaces.

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    Re: Vermont first state to ban fracking

    Quote Originally Posted by jamesrage View Post
    With all the fears of that stuff leaking and contaminating the land and ground water I really don't blame Vermont. Its not like you can send someone down there to clean it up if it does contaminate the area underground.
    Policy should be based on fact not fear.

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    Re: Vermont first state to ban fracking

    Quote Originally Posted by AdamT View Post
    Yep, it's amazing how quickly that whole "states' rights" thing goes by the wayside when it's a state doing something conservatives don't like.
    I am not advocating forcing states to extract their energy but if they refuse to do so as they enjoy the benefits from states that are willing to provide energy for all of America they should be willing to pay those other states for their efforts. Blue states sponging of red states needs to end, suck it up and pull your weight libs. Calif is a perfect example, they have more cars than any other state but refuse to drill their off shore oil reserves, they should pay a tax to states that provide for them what they won't provide for themselves.

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    Re: Vermont first state to ban fracking

    Quote Originally Posted by AdamT View Post
    Why don't you try this experiment, Pasteur: find a hole, drop a hose down into it, turn on the spigot, and see if water doesn't come up out of the hole. Please report your results.
    If I were talking about water being displaced up the annulus of a wellbore, you would have a point. Since I'm not, well...you're way out in leftfield. No pun intended.
    Quote Originally Posted by Top Cat View Post
    At least Bill saved his transgressions for grown women. Not suggesting what he did was OK. But he didn't chase 14 year olds.

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    Re: Vermont first state to ban fracking

    Quote Originally Posted by jamesrage View Post
    With all the fears of that stuff leaking and contaminating the land and ground water I really don't blame Vermont. Its not like you can send someone down there to clean it up if it does contaminate the area underground.
    That's another misconception: the fluid are removed and the formations are flushed with fresh water after the frac job has been completed. The fresh water that is used to flush the formation are tested for purity, per the EPA. Not only does it remove anything that might be harmful to the environment, but it removes inhibiting polymers from the formation that could restrict the product flow.

    I think opposition to frac'ing stems from the fact that most people don't have the first clue how it's done, nor what agents are used in the application.

    Ignorance breeds fear.
    Quote Originally Posted by Top Cat View Post
    At least Bill saved his transgressions for grown women. Not suggesting what he did was OK. But he didn't chase 14 year olds.

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    Re: Vermont first state to ban fracking

    Quote Originally Posted by sawyerloggingon View Post
    I am not advocating forcing states to extract their energy but if they refuse to do so as they enjoy the benefits from states that are willing to provide energy for all of America they should be willing to pay those other states for their efforts. Blue states sponging of red states needs to end, suck it up and pull your weight libs. Calif is a perfect example, they have more cars than any other state but refuse to drill their off shore oil reserves, they should pay a tax to states that provide for them what they won't provide for themselves.
    What you're talking about is penalizing the state for doing what it wants to do, which obviously intereferes with its sovereignty. Sort of like saying, "we're not going to tell southern states that they can't have right to work laws, but if they result in less unionization then we're going to fine them the equivalent of union dues." I assume you'd be jiggy with that?
    "The necessaries of life occasion the great expense of the poor. They find it difficult to get food, and the greater part of their little revenue is spent in getting it. The luxuries and vanities of life occasion the principal expense of the rich, and a magnificent house embellishes and sets off to the best advantage all the other luxuries and vanities which they possess. ... It is not very unreasonable that the rich should contribute to the public expense, not only in proportion to their revenue, but something more than in that proportion."

    -- Adam Smith

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