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Vermont first state to ban fracking

There is a permit requirement under the CWA, which I'm sure requires disclosure.

You realize that you're contradicting yourself. Right?

Or, is this some conspiracy theory about how the oil and gas industry is knowingly violating the Clean Water Act?
 
You realize that you're contradicting yourself. Right?

Or, is this some conspiracy theory about how the oil and gas industry is knowingly violating the Clean Water Act?

I added to my post before you responded. The CWA generally applies to industries that dicharge into "navigable waters", so it probably does not apply to underground fissures.
 
CNN) -- Vermont's governor has signed a bill making it the first U.S. state to ban fracking, the controversial practice to extract natural gas from the ground.
Vermont first state to ban fracking - CNN.com


I wish there was a way to have these not in my back yard states pay more for affordable energy that is produced in other states that are willing to do what needs to be done. They are like leeches on America, perfectly willing to get reduced prices on fuel from other states like North Dakota but not willing to do their share for our country. Hey Vermont, Kiss My Ass!

That's OK. Vermont can do as they please. Besides, Kansas just banned off shore windmills. So it evens out.
 
I added to my post before you responded. The CWA generally applies to industries that dicharge into "navigable waters", so it probably does not apply to underground fissures.

And, in comes the Safe Drinking Water Act.

The 1974 act authorized EPA to regulate injection wells in order to protect underground sources of drinking water. Congress amended the SDWA in 2005 to exclude hydraulic fracturing, an industrial process for recovering oil and natural gas, from coverage under the UIC program.


Safe Drinking Water Act - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Don't worry. The gubmint is keeping you safe, so you won't have to do it yourself.
 
...espeicaly since the chems used are EPA approved biodegradable agents.

It's good to see you support the EPA. :peace
 
Am I a drilling genius? Of course not. There's no such thing as a, "drilling genius". My father drilled oil wells for 50 years and he learned new **** until the day he died.

Do you think someone who makes their money by drilling oil wells would be objective concerning issues that could end their business?
 
Frankly, a greater threat is posed by herbicides and pesticides.

You are probably correct.

I say let's deal with these issues also. I don't see how this affects concerns about fracking. Aren't we, as a society, able to deal with multiple things simultaneously?

We can walk and chew gum at the same time.
 
Houston makes me hope Global Warming is real and imminent... j/k

If you worked in a machine shop like I do, you might well think this is the case. Our shop isn't air-conditioned. Come by in July and see for yourself!
 
And, in comes the Safe Drinking Water Act.



Don't worry. The gubmint is keeping you safe, so you won't have to do it yourself.

Apparently not, as they excluded fracking from the Safe Drinking Water Act. So who, exactly, is singling out fracking?
 
I thought righties favored state rights to determine their own fate?

I do. Vermont has the ability to determine its own economic path and future. Just don't see the rest of us wanting that for ourselves. The environment has been the least of my concerns surrounding this booming technique.
 
You are probably correct.

I say let's deal with these issues also. I don't see how this affects concerns about fracking. Aren't we, as a society, able to deal with multiple things simultaneously?

We can walk and chew gum at the same time.

We've yet to prove that actually. Our government is so inefficient/ineffective that they can't manage to do one thing at a time other than of course screwing stuff up.
 
The whole point of hydraulic fracturing is to increase the permeability of rocks to release the natural gas in them, often with high pressure fluids. Those fluids are making it easier for themselves to get out into the broader rock formations. Through the process of chemical osmosis, areas with a high concentration of a given substance will tend to migrate to an area of lesser concentration, and the osmotic process can create pressures of its own. I don't see why anyone would think that it wouldn't be at least possible that chemicals used in fracking could make their way in to local groundwater.

Osmosis would require a permeable surface to move through. Considering the fracking process is done under over a mile of impermeable cap rock is why this situation is not possible. It is also why natural gas from these formations does not simply percolate to the surface.
 
The main place where contamination of gw is possible is from disposal of frack flowback and it is already regulated by the SDWA.
 
Do you think someone who makes their money by drilling oil wells would be objective concerning issues that could end their business?

And, by "objective" you mean, "agree with everything you're saying", regardless of what my knowledge and experience tell me?
 
Osmosis would require a permeable surface to move through. Considering the fracking process is done under over a mile of impermeable cap rock is why this situation is not possible. It is also why natural gas from these formations does not simply percolate to the surface.

That fact goes right over the heads of some folks. Amazing!
 
Well, then do your own research. It's not my job to prove your point for you.

Because you cannot.

Here in Michigan we have had two different lobbyists come to our State Rep office and push for a vote on easing fracking regulations. They tell us that the companies have certain proprietary rights that allow them to keep this information secret - even from the State.

So you could not prove your point if you even wanted to. The information is simply not available to any of us.

We are allowing companies to put chemicals in the ground and we have no real idea how much of each they are putting in nor can we then do any study of their possible effect because we have no idea what to study.
 
Because you cannot.

Here in Michigan we have had two different lobbyists come to our State Rep office and push for a vote on easing fracking regulations. They tell us that the companies have certain proprietary rights that allow them to keep this information secret - even from the State.

So you could not prove your point if you even wanted to. The information is simply not available to any of us.

We are allowing companies to put chemicals in the ground and we have no real idea how much of each they are putting in nor can we then do any study of their possible effect because we have no idea what to study.

Again, you fail to do your own research. Color me surprised. Maybe you can try YahooAnswers, it seems to be your favorite source. :rofl

And, now, we're just supposed to take your word for all this. What makes you think you can possibly have that much credibility.
 
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Again, you fail to do your own research. Color me surprised. Maybe you can try YahooAnswers, it seems to be your favorite source. :rofl

And, now, we're just supposed to take your word for all this. What makes you think you can possibly have that much credibility.

You've already been slapped down on this same point at least twice. You're like the energizer bobo.
 
Because you cannot.

Here in Michigan we have had two different lobbyists come to our State Rep office and push for a vote on easing fracking regulations. They tell us that the companies have certain proprietary rights that allow them to keep this information secret - even from the State.

So you could not prove your point if you even wanted to. The information is simply not available to any of us.

We are allowing companies to put chemicals in the ground and we have no real idea how much of each they are putting in nor can we then do any study of their possible effect because we have no idea what to study.

Halliburton - Fluids Disclosure
 
Again, you fail to do your own research. Color me surprised. Maybe you can try YahooAnswers, it seems to be your favorite source. :rofl

And, now, we're just supposed to take your word for all this. What makes you think you can possibly have that much credibility.

All you have to do is present your data right here. But you are impotent to do that.

Fracking companies hold their formulas close as proprietary secrets. We have no idea what it is they are putting in the ground in what quantities and what the long term effect is.

But by all means do prove me wrong and show us all right here.
 

Sadly, my state of Michigan is not on that disclosure list - as most other states are not either.

Until they reveal just what they are putting into the ground in Michigan and in what quantities and what the long term effects are, we are simply putting public safety into the wrong hands. The same applies to every other state on that map without a red dot on it where fracking is being carried out.
 
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Sadly, my state of Michigan is not on that disclosure list - as most other states are not either.

Production in Michigan is so minimal that it's not really relevant.
 
So close it down then.

Perfect. That's just what Michigan needs. Your economy blows, manufacturing has all but died, and now you want to kill off another industry. We should stop sending you petroleum and money.
 
Perfect. That's just what Michigan needs. Your economy blows, manufacturing has all but died, and now you want to kill off another industry. We should stop sending you petroleum and money.

You already told us that production in Michigan is minimal. But now the whole economy seems to hinge upon it.

Please make up your mind.
 
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