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Thread: Vermont first state to ban fracking

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    Re: Vermont first state to ban fracking

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    What are the long term risks?

    I'm sorry to keep asking that, but I want to prove a point.
    ASSUMING the down hole casing failed. All layers of it, the metal and concrete, and that failure happened above the water table, it is possible that some frack fluid could seep into the water supply. That's a HUGE assumption. HUGE...

    This other argument, that the fluid will seep into the ground water without a break in the injection process, stupid. First of all, fracking occurs WELL below the water table. The fluids at that depth don't just "float up and co-mingle" with the ground water. We're talking huge distances apart. Gravity doesn't allow that to happen first of all, beyond that, the rock layer between the drilling zone and the water table doesn't permit it either.

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    Re: Vermont first state to ban fracking

    Quote Originally Posted by dabateman View Post
    Biased sources to support the claim...

    Prove that it has happened. Once.
    Yes scholarly sources, scientific studies, and first hand accounts are "biased"? Oh yea they must be... I forgot...
    Just some more for ya...
    Colorado study finds fracking risks for nearby residents - The Denver Post


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    Re: Vermont first state to ban fracking

    Quote Originally Posted by TheDemSocialist View Post
    New Study Predicts Frack Fluids Can Migrate to Aquifers Within Years - ProPublica
    "concluding that fracking chemicals injected into the ground could migrate toward drinking water supplies far more quickly than experts have previously predicted."
    "But the study, using computer modeling, concluded that natural faults and fractures in the Marcellus, exacerbated by the effects of fracking itself, could allow chemicals to reach the surface in as little as "just a few years."
    "The study in Ground Water is the first peer-reviewed research evaluating this possibility."
    "fracking will dramatically speed up the movement of chemicals injected into the ground."
    "As a result, chemicals left underground are still being pushed away from the drill site long after drilling is finished. It can take five or six years before the natural balance of pressure in the underground system is fully restored, the study found."

    http://www.urpasheville.org/proceedi...rs/NP52000.pdf
    "According to Theo Colborn, approximately 37% of the chemicals used in the extraction and refining of natural gas
    can volatilize. 89% of these chemicals can harm the eyes, skin, sensory organs, respiratory tract and gastrointestinal tract. Additionally, 81% of these volatile chemicals can damage the brain and/or nervous system. Volatile chemicals tend to have a greater effect on human health because they can become inhaled, ingested, or absorbed through the skin. Three groups of volatile compounds that have adverse effects on human health include ozone, hydrogen sulfide, and BTEX"
    "According to the Oil and Gas Accountability Project (OGAP), drilling fluids that return to the surface “may contain dissolved and suspended contaminants including cadmium, arsenic, and metals such as mercury, copper and lead; hydrocarbons; hydrogen sulfide and natural gas, as well as drilling mud additives, many of which contain potentially harmful chemicals (e.g., chromate, barite)”

    fracking | 5 Facts about Fracking Every Family Needs to Know | Rodale News
    "649 different chemicals, more than half of which are known to disrupt the endocrine system. Exposure to these types of chemicals has been linked to certain cancers, diabetes, obesity, and metabolic syndrome (the name for a group of risk factors that occur together and increase the risk for heart disease, stroke, and type 2 diabetes). Fifty-five percent of the chemicals cause brain and nervous system damage, and many are linked to cancer and organ damage. The threat of exposure to these chemicals occurs via contaminated air, water, and soil."
    "A 2010 study out of the University of Buffalo found that natural gas drilling using the fracking method could potentially contaminate water supplies with uranium."

    Marcellus Shale Fracking Wastewater Harmful
    "A new paper by Natural Resources Defense Council says hydraulic fracturing (fracking) generates massive amounts of polluted wastewater in in the Marcellus Shale that threatens the health of drinking water supplies, rivers, streams, and groundwater - and that federal and state regulations have not kept pace with the dramatic growth of fracking and must be strengthened to reduce the risks of health issues throughout the Marcellus region."

    Light Your Water On Fire from Gas Drilling, Fracking - YouTube
    GASLAND Trailer 2010 - YouTube
    So, you believe the hocus-pocus that tells you that frac'ing that occurs at 14,000 feet can effect a water well that is less than 500 feet deep?

    This is my favorite part: "New Study Predicts Frack Fluids Can Migrate to Aquifers Within Years". This title has, "we're just guessin'", written all over it. This is nothing but fear mongering.

    The agents and additives that are used in frac'ing are all EPA approved. How can they be that harmful? Most are naturally occuring elements, such as calcium and biodegradable stuff like soda carbonate. Soda carbonate is put into swimming pools.

    You should stop reading the propaganda and start learning the facts.
    Quote Originally Posted by Top Cat View Post
    At least Bill saved his transgressions for grown women. Not suggesting what he did was OK. But he didn't chase 14 year olds.

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    Re: Vermont first state to ban fracking

    Quote Originally Posted by dontworrybehappy View Post
    Something else people don't realize, I can make unemployment numbers look good with tons of minimum wage jobs. The jobs provided by oil and gas drilling, and I'm sure fracking too, start out around the mid 40's and go up from there. These jobs aren't McDonalds jobs, they are very good paying long term jobs. They may not make the unemployment numbers jump too much, but they sure add to the GDP of the state they are in.
    Jobs at the cost of bystanders lives? No thank you.. Maybe should invest in green jobs not this ****.


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    Re: Vermont first state to ban fracking

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    one of the more interesting splits in the far left is between the yuppie environmentalists and the true laborites. The yuppies want to preserve their playgrounds in nature-they oppose anything that might interfere with their hangliding or rafting

    on the other side are those who understand that environmental extremism actually hurts real working men and women. the spotted owl idiocy hurt loggers for example, home builders, carpenters etc.

    you appear to be one of the yuppie trustafarian socialists
    Sure just play off all research and scholarly work as "yupiie trustafarian socialist".. Yea... Real predictable of you TD
    The thing is Im not an "environmentalist" i just have enough common since to see when practices are harmful especially to human life...


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    Re: Vermont first state to ban fracking

    Quote Originally Posted by dabateman View Post
    ASSUMING the down hole casing failed. All layers of it, the metal and concrete, and that failure happened above the water table, it is possible that some frack fluid could seep into the water supply. That's a HUGE assumption. HUGE...

    This other argument, that the fluid will seep into the ground water without a break in the injection process, stupid. First of all, fracking occurs WELL below the water table. The fluids at that depth don't just "float up and co-mingle" with the ground water. We're talking huge distances apart. Gravity doesn't allow that to happen first of all, beyond that, the rock layer between the drilling zone and the water table doesn't permit it either.
    The problem with that assumption, is that there's no way that frac'ing at 10,000+ feet is going to make it's way into the primary water table that lies at arund 400 feet.

    I mean, it's physically impossible. For that to happen, it would have to defy the law of gravity and we all know that is impossible. Ground water isn't under pressure, so there's no way that the primary water zone is going to pick up frac chems that are at 14,000'.
    Quote Originally Posted by Top Cat View Post
    At least Bill saved his transgressions for grown women. Not suggesting what he did was OK. But he didn't chase 14 year olds.

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    Re: Vermont first state to ban fracking

    Quote Originally Posted by TheDemSocialist View Post
    Sure just play off all research and scholarly work as "yupiie trustafarian socialist".. Yea... Real predictable of you TD
    The thing is Im not an "environmentalist" i just have enough common since to see when practices are harmful especially to human life...
    These are probably the same flat-earth clowns that think global warming is real.
    Quote Originally Posted by Top Cat View Post
    At least Bill saved his transgressions for grown women. Not suggesting what he did was OK. But he didn't chase 14 year olds.

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    Re: Vermont first state to ban fracking

    Quote Originally Posted by TheDemSocialist View Post
    Yes scholarly sources, scientific studies, and first hand accounts are "biased"? Oh yea they must be... I forgot...
    Just some more for ya...
    Colorado study finds fracking risks for nearby residents - The Denver Post
    Let me see if I can help you out...

    The group that studied this said that more studies needed to be done because it COULD be. Not that it is. That it COULD be. In addition, this is about air quality issue that happen in all drilling.

    That's not fracking. You're taking the study, twisting it into something it's not, and calling it definitive science. We also call that lying.

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    Re: Vermont first state to ban fracking

    Quote Originally Posted by TheDemSocialist View Post
    Jobs at the cost of bystanders lives? No thank you.. Maybe should invest in green jobs not this ****.
    How much drilling experience do you have?
    Quote Originally Posted by Top Cat View Post
    At least Bill saved his transgressions for grown women. Not suggesting what he did was OK. But he didn't chase 14 year olds.

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    Re: Vermont first state to ban fracking

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    The problem with that assumption, is that there's no way that frac'ing at 10,000+ feet is going to make it's way into the primary water table that lies at arund 400 feet.

    I mean, it's physically impossible. For that to happen, it would have to defy the law of gravity and we all know that is impossible. Ground water isn't under pressure, so there's no way that the primary water zone is going to pick up frac chems that are at 14,000'.
    The fracture would have to happen above the water table. Which is why I said it was extremely unlikely...

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