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Thread: Vermont first state to ban fracking

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    Re: Vermont first state to ban fracking

    I support fracking on a limited and highly-monitored basis. But it should be a minimum distance from all reservoirs and aquifers.

    I know a lot of NYers are against it.

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    Re: Vermont first state to ban fracking

    Quote Originally Posted by Thunder View Post
    I support fracking on a limited and highly-monitored basis. But it should be a minimum distance from all reservoirs and aquifers.
    And the minimum distance is?

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    Re: Vermont first state to ban fracking

    Quote Originally Posted by dabateman View Post
    And the minimum distance is?
    ask the DEC.

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    Re: Vermont first state to ban fracking

    Quote Originally Posted by dabateman View Post
    And I'm saying that we don't hold other industries to the same standard though they are clearly as dangerous if not more so. So instead of singling out petroleum (as we love to do in this country), let's take this ground-water thing seriously or just say screw it.
    Maybe you're not familiar with the clean water act? All industries are regulated that potentially endanger the water supply.
    "The necessaries of life occasion the great expense of the poor. They find it difficult to get food, and the greater part of their little revenue is spent in getting it. The luxuries and vanities of life occasion the principal expense of the rich, and a magnificent house embellishes and sets off to the best advantage all the other luxuries and vanities which they possess. ... It is not very unreasonable that the rich should contribute to the public expense, not only in proportion to their revenue, but something more than in that proportion."

    -- Adam Smith

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    Re: Vermont first state to ban fracking

    Quote Originally Posted by Thunder View Post
    ask the DEC.
    I'm asking you. They don't know... no one knows...

    The point of asking is really to point out that thousands of feet separate the drilling zones now.

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    Re: Vermont first state to ban fracking

    Quote Originally Posted by ChuckBerry View Post
    The whole point of hydraulic fracturing is to increase the permeability of rocks to release the natural gas in them, often with high pressure fluids. Those fluids are making it easier for themselves to get out into the broader rock formations. Through the process of chemical osmosis, areas with a high concentration of a given substance will tend to migrate to an area of lesser concentration, and the osmotic process can create pressures of its own. I don't see why anyone would think that it wouldn't be at least possible that chemicals used in fracking could make their way in to local groundwater.
    Because local ground water doesn't come from aquifers at 10,00+ feet down. The deepest primary water zone I've ever seen was at approximately 600 feet.

    These agents 1) aren't going to defy gravity, 2) aren't going to penetrate solid rock, 3) aren't present in the formation after pressure is introduce from production pumps.

    Let' expand on #3 for a sec: It's being suggested that when the cavern is pressureized, that the oil and gas are going to pumped out and the frac agents are going to stay down hole. Now, let's apply a little common sense and realize how that's impossible. If anyone still can't figure it out, let me know and I'll explain to you the fundamentals of how a pump works.
    Quote Originally Posted by Top Cat View Post
    At least Bill saved his transgressions for grown women. Not suggesting what he did was OK. But he didn't chase 14 year olds.

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    Re: Vermont first state to ban fracking

    Quote Originally Posted by AdamT View Post
    Maybe you're not familiar with the clean water act? All industries are regulated that potentially endanger the water supply.
    Yet disclosure obviously isn't a requirement or fracking contents would be disclosed...

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    Re: Vermont first state to ban fracking

    Quote Originally Posted by dabateman View Post
    Yet disclosure obviously isn't a requirement or fracking contents would be disclosed...
    Makes ya LOL, huh?
    Quote Originally Posted by Top Cat View Post
    At least Bill saved his transgressions for grown women. Not suggesting what he did was OK. But he didn't chase 14 year olds.

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    Re: Vermont first state to ban fracking

    Quote Originally Posted by dabateman View Post
    Yet disclosure obviously isn't a requirement or fracking contents would be disclosed...
    There is a permit requirement under the CWA, which I'm sure requires disclosure. But the CWA generally applies to industries that discharge into "navigable waters", which probably rules out underground fissures.
    Last edited by AdamT; 05-19-12 at 12:46 AM.
    "The necessaries of life occasion the great expense of the poor. They find it difficult to get food, and the greater part of their little revenue is spent in getting it. The luxuries and vanities of life occasion the principal expense of the rich, and a magnificent house embellishes and sets off to the best advantage all the other luxuries and vanities which they possess. ... It is not very unreasonable that the rich should contribute to the public expense, not only in proportion to their revenue, but something more than in that proportion."

    -- Adam Smith

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    Re: Vermont first state to ban fracking

    Quote Originally Posted by AdamT View Post
    There is a permit requirement under the CWA, which I'm sure requires disclosure.
    So that kinda destroys your entire argument that it's not required to be disclosed.

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