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Thread: Vermont first state to ban fracking

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    Re: Vermont first state to ban fracking

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    I already have. Try and keep up, please. Thank you.
    No, what you provided was a list of chemicals that are sometimes used in fracking. There is no requirement that companies divulge the chemicals they are actually using.
    "The necessaries of life occasion the great expense of the poor. They find it difficult to get food, and the greater part of their little revenue is spent in getting it. The luxuries and vanities of life occasion the principal expense of the rich, and a magnificent house embellishes and sets off to the best advantage all the other luxuries and vanities which they possess. ... It is not very unreasonable that the rich should contribute to the public expense, not only in proportion to their revenue, but something more than in that proportion."

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    Re: Vermont first state to ban fracking

    Quote Originally Posted by AdamT View Post
    No, what you provided was a list of chemicals that are sometimes used in fracking. There is no requirement that companies divulge the chemicals they are actually using.
    This is actually untrue. There are disclosure requirements (at least in states with any significant production). Most states use FracFocus.

    Home | FracFocus Chemical Disclosure Registry

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    Re: Vermont first state to ban fracking

    Quote Originally Posted by dabateman View Post
    This is actually untrue. There are disclosure requirements (at least in states with any significant production). Most states use FracFocus.

    Home | FracFocus Chemical Disclosure Registry
    The disclosure requirements are voluntary and not comprehensive.

    Voluntary, Partial Listing of Chemicals

    In April 2011, the Ground Water Protection Council, in conjunction with the industry, began releasing well-by-well lists of hydraulic fracturing chemicals at [11].[101] Disclosure is still on a voluntary basis. Lists do not include all substances used; a complete listing of the specific chemical formulation of additives used in hydraulic fracturing operations is still not currently made available to landowners, neighbors, local officials, or health care providers, let alone the general public. This practice is under scrutiny.[102] Two studies released in 2009, one by the U.S. Department of Energy and the other released by the Ground Water Protection Council, address hydraulic fracturing safety concerns. Chemicals which can be used in the fracturing fluid include kerosene, benzene, toluene, xylene, and formaldehyde.[103][103]

    Notable omissions. Lists provided by companies do not include many radioactive tracers used in hydraulic fracturing, such as Antimony-121, Antimony-122, Antimony-123, Antimony-124, Antimony-125, Antimony-126, Antimony-127, Chromium-51, Cobalt-57, Cobalt-58, Cobalt-60, Gold-198, Iodine-127, Iodine-128, Iodine-129, Iodine-130, Iodine-131 (one of the most commonly named in patents of the process, with a half life of 8.04 days), Iridium-192, Iron-59, Krypton-85, Lanthanum-140, Potassium-39 (activated to Potassium-40), Potassium-41 (activated to Potassium-42), Potassium-43, Rubidium-86, Scandium-45, Scandium-46, Scandium-47, Scandium-48, Silver-110, Strontium-85, Xenon-133, Zinc-65, and Zirconium-95. Several are typically combined and injected together. Their half lifes range from 40.2 hours (Lanthanum-140) to 5.27 years (Cobalt-60).[104][38][39][40]

    Hydraulic fracturing in the United States - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
    "The necessaries of life occasion the great expense of the poor. They find it difficult to get food, and the greater part of their little revenue is spent in getting it. The luxuries and vanities of life occasion the principal expense of the rich, and a magnificent house embellishes and sets off to the best advantage all the other luxuries and vanities which they possess. ... It is not very unreasonable that the rich should contribute to the public expense, not only in proportion to their revenue, but something more than in that proportion."

    -- Adam Smith

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    Re: Vermont first state to ban fracking

    Quote Originally Posted by AdamT View Post
    The disclosure requirements are voluntary and not comprehensive.
    First, you're smarter than Wiki... So act like it.

    http://www.rrc.state.tx.us/rules/pro...sure-Aug29.PDF

    States have created laws REQUIRING disclosure.

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    Re: Vermont first state to ban fracking

    The whole point of hydraulic fracturing is to increase the permeability of rocks to release the natural gas in them, often with high pressure fluids. Those fluids are making it easier for themselves to get out into the broader rock formations. Through the process of chemical osmosis, areas with a high concentration of a given substance will tend to migrate to an area of lesser concentration, and the osmotic process can create pressures of its own. I don't see why anyone would think that it wouldn't be at least possible that chemicals used in fracking could make their way in to local groundwater.
    The morality of abortion is not a religious belief, any more than the morality of slavery, apartheid, rape, larceny, murder or arson is a religious belief. These are norms of the natural law of mankind and can be legislated even in a completely religionless society.

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    Re: Vermont first state to ban fracking

    "Vermont first state to ban fracking"

    Breaking news: Vermont last state to ban fracking

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    Re: Vermont first state to ban fracking

    This thread reminds of the Penn and Teller episode when they went around a massive environmental protest in DC convincing 100s of people to sign a petition banning "di-hydrogen oxide."

    Lets got through this big list of scary sounding chemicals and look at their common uses...shall we:

    Hydrochloric Acid-multiple uses but the main component in Gastric acid....what you body creates to digest food. Scary stuff there.
    Glutaraldehyde - used to disinfect medical and dental equipment as well as treat warts! Heebee jeebies on that one.
    Quaternary Ammonium Chloride - main component in some anitbacterial soaps.
    Tetrakis Hydroxymethyl-Phosphonium Sulfate - flame retardent commonly used on textiles and cotton products.
    Ammonium Persulfate - etching liquid, make microchips with it
    Sodium Chloride - this might the scariest one of all......salt.
    Magnesium Peroxide-proven bioremediation agent (helps remove toxins), used to treat farm soil so ends up in food
    Magnesium Oxide - component of TUMS (chronic heartburn...love me some Mg Peroxide!)
    Calcium Chloride - lots of good stuff, deicing, food preservative, fish tank additive, treats wastewater to allow drainage into the environment
    Choline Chloride - common GNC supplement....this one terrifies me!
    Tetramethyl ammonium chloride-not whole lot on this one but the MSDS indicates there not much health concern over it
    Sodium Chloride -well, this one is sooooo scary they used it twice! Salt again.
    Isopropanol - from medical to fuel additive (drying agent)
    Methanol - this one is actually a little toxic but would require 4 fl. oz (= two shots) of pure methanol to have a lethal does.
    Formic Acid - another antibacterial agent, used in feed and fertilzer...prevents e.coli
    Acetaldehyde - found in Marijuana smoke! Know some of you will love that!
    Petroleum Distillate - this one is kind of sneaky as its the general term for several other chems on this list.
    Hydrotreated Light Petroleum Distillate- same as above
    Potassium Metaborate - commonly found in welding flux
    Triethanolamine Zirconate - used in printing ink
    Sodium Tetraborate - laundry soap
    Boric Acid - used for emergency first aid eyewash
    Zirconium Complex - this could mean host of different substances but zirconium is used to make face diamonds.
    Borate Salts - Borax laundry soap again!
    Ethylene Glycol - antifreeze
    Methanol - I'm wondering if these repeats occur to make this big scary list longer.
    Polyacrylamide - flocculate, used in wastewater treatment before putting back into the environment
    Petroleum Distillate - this ones so nice they listed it twice!
    Hydrotreated Light Petroleum Distillate- dar
    Methanol- dar
    Ethylene Glycol-dar
    Guar Gum - damn...they use this for a lot including our food.
    Petroleum Distillate- dar
    Hydrotreated Light Petroleum Distillate-dar
    Methanol dar
    Polysaccharide Blend - one for you ladies! Used in hair removal wax!
    Ethylene Glycol-dar
    Citric Acid - HELLO!!! Orange juice anyone!
    Acetic Acid - used in pickles...yumm
    Thioglycolic Acid - used in perms.
    Sodium Erythorbate - an anitoxidant found in food
    Lauryl Sulfate - SHAMPOO
    Isopropanol - air freshener
    Ethylene Glycol - dar
    Sodium Hydroxide - used to remove peal on cocoa beans....so WILLY WONKA is involved!
    Potassium Hydroxide - soft hand soap
    Acetic Acid - dar
    Sodium Carbonate - for you starving college kids....RAMEN NOODLES!
    Potassium Carbonate - used in WINE
    Copolymer of Acrylamide and Sodium Acrylate - FAKE SNOW!! In a nutshell...plastic
    Sodium Polycarboxylate - dishwasher soap
    Phosphonic Acid Salt - used in medicine to treat bone disorders
    Lauryl Sulfate - dar
    Ethanol - Bourbon anyone...primary ingredient in booze
    Naphthalene - mothballs
    Methanol - dar
    Isopropyl Alcohol - dar
    Butoxyethanol - another ingredient commonly used in soap.
    Last edited by Fishstyx; 05-18-12 at 07:20 PM.

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    Re: Vermont first state to ban fracking

    Why yes, what a surprise - not!

    We have someone posting a partial list of the chemicals, there are over 750, that are known to be used in fracking. Chemicals so common we encounter them everyday - with one small problem not mentioned in the attempt to show how 'safe' these good little chemicals are - concentration levels. A substance that is safe to use when diluted may well be toxic at higher concentration levels.

    for instance - hydrochloric acid is found in stomach acid where it may at elevated levels cause damage to the lining of the stomach and to the esophagus. Since 1988, hydrochloric acid has been listed as a Table II precursor under the 1988 United Nations Convention Against Illicit Traffic in Narcotic Drugs and Psychotropic Substances because of its use in the production of heroin, cocaine, and methamphetamine.

    Glutaraldehyde is a toxic chemical that is used as a cold sterilant to disinfect and clean heat-sensitive medical, surgical and dental equipment.

    Quaternary Ammonium Chloride is used in anti-bacterial soaps at a concentration level of 0.08 to 0.02%

    Just a couple of examples. The problem for those who claim fracking is safe and provide us with a list of the "common" chemicals to be found in the fluids used for the fracking process - the companies have consistently refused to divulge just which chemicals they use and in what concentrations.
    “And I have no doubt that every new example will succeed, as every past one has done, in shewing that religion & Govt will both exist in greater purity, the less they are mixed together.”
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    Re: Vermont first state to ban fracking

    Quote Originally Posted by Somerville View Post
    Why yes, what a surprise - not!

    We have someone posting a partial list of the chemicals, there are over 750, that are known to be used in fracking. Chemicals so common we encounter them everyday - with one small problem not mentioned in the attempt to show how 'safe' these good little chemicals are - concentration levels. A substance that is safe to use when diluted may well be toxic at higher concentration levels.

    for instance - hydrochloric acid is found in stomach acid where it may at elevated levels cause damage to the lining of the stomach and to the esophagus. Since 1988, hydrochloric acid has been listed as a Table II precursor under the 1988 United Nations Convention Against Illicit Traffic in Narcotic Drugs and Psychotropic Substances because of its use in the production of heroin, cocaine, and methamphetamine.

    Glutaraldehyde is a toxic chemical that is used as a cold sterilant to disinfect and clean heat-sensitive medical, surgical and dental equipment.

    Quaternary Ammonium Chloride is used in anti-bacterial soaps at a concentration level of 0.08 to 0.02%

    Just a couple of examples. The problem for those who claim fracking is safe and provide us with a list of the "common" chemicals to be found in the fluids used for the fracking process - the companies have consistently refused to divulge just which chemicals they use and in what concentrations.
    What's the secret Coca-Cola recipe?

    Don't get me wrong. I understand your point, but you cannot expect the petroleum industry to play by rules you aren't willing to implement in other industries. Industries that are pumping chemicals into our environment and blood stream on a daily basis.

    Frankly, a greater threat is posed by herbicides and pesticides.

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    Re: Vermont first state to ban fracking

    I thought righties favored state rights to determine their own fate?

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