New battle over debt limit inevitable?

Boehner says Republicans won't allow another increase in the nation's debt limit unless it's offset by spending cuts, and no tax increases.


"Allowing America to default on its debt would be irresponsible," he said.


The nation's debt has nearly tripled in the past decade, and now stands at $15.6 trillion.


Treasury Secretary Timothy Geithner has predicted the U.S. will hit its current borrowing limit of $16.4 trillion by the end of the year.

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New battle over debt limit inevitable? - CBS News

And I give you what our political debate between the President and Romney should be. We need tax reform and spending reform quickly.

This is a repeat from every other debt ceiling debate since 2009.

Here's what'll happen:

Option 1: It will go down to the wire and a deal will be hashed out to raise the debt ceiling by a miniscule amount with no cuts in order to "keep America running". The two sides will fight against one another before finally coming up with "cuts" that don't really go into effect for 15 years.

Option 2: A deal will be hashed out that provides a significant increase that comes with corresponding cuts that don't go into effect for 5+ years. In the mean time, the future cuts will be all but erased by new legislation, thereby voiding their effectiveness.

In either case, each side will blame the other, and the unbelievably successful Democrat spin machine will when the public opinion contest. Republicans will take the hit and Romney will flounder because of it.

tessaesque said:

In either case, each side will blame the other, and the unbelievably successful Democrat spin machine will when the public opinion contest. Republicans will take the hit and Romney will flounder because of it.

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Sadly there is no spin involved. The fact is that Democrats are willing to agree to spending cuts far in excess of what they think we should implement at this time, so long as they are balanced by modest revenue hikes. In contrast, Republicans will not accept any revenue hikes whatsoever. It's their way or the highway (to hell), and the highway ain't paved with good intentions.

So it is simply FACTUAL that Democrats are being more reasonable and Republicans are holding a gun to the nation's head because they flat-out refuse to compromise.

All that is exactly what our problem is. Also the reason I hope we get a whole new crop of "leaders".

The right needs to accept tax hikes and the left needs to accept cuts in spending. The problem is both sides want to make sure their side loses less. They are more concerned with saving face then they are bettering America.

TheNextEra said:

The right needs to accept tax hikes and the left needs to accept cuts in spending. The problem is both sides want to make sure their side loses less. They are more concerned with saving face then they are bettering America.

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The problem is that damned-near everyone on the Republican side has signed an oath not to crompromise.

AdamT said:

The problem is that damned-near everyone on the Republican side has signed an oath not to crompromise.

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Exactly. And even when a few brave Republican souls put their toe into that pool to test the waters it is always with the caveat that spending must be cut first and even when tax increases come about - we must cut on a four or five to one ration compared to tax increases.

What ever happened to compromise meaning meeting halfway?

Blue_State said:

New battle over debt limit inevitable? - CBS News

And I give you what our political debate between the President and Romney should be. We need tax reform and spending reform quickly.

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Depends on the elections.

1) Obama wins, and regains the House and keeps the Senate. Senate GOP will use Senate rules to block every piece of legislation and appointment they can.. they have been doing it for 4 years, so why not continue. Of course if Dems in the Senate get 60+ seats, then stuff could in theory happen...
2) Obama wins, GOP holds the house and Dems keep the Senate. .... same as we got now, utter gridlock and cluster****.
3) Obama wins, GOP takes house and Senate. GOP tries to ram through massive cuts but Obama either says no, or the Dems in the Senate use GOP tactics to filibuster everything for 4 years. This will go on for 2 years, and then the House will flip back to the other side.
4) Romeny wins, GOP holds house, but does not take Senate. Senate Dems do what the GOP has done in the last 4+ years.
5) Romney wins, Dems take the house, GOP takes the Senate. House holds up everything to prevent the GOP hack and slash policies.
6) Romeny wins, Dems take both house and Senate. Romney is screwed and can only veto stuff that the GOP does not manage to block in the Senate with their usual tactics.
7) Romeny wins, GOP takes both house and senate... but not with 60+ seats.. Dems revert to GOP tactics... if the GOP does get 60+ seats.. then frankly... nothing happens either.

I just dont see the GOP gut the American federal system on spending, since they get much of their funding from corporations that are dependent on that spending!

Basically... you all are screwed thanks to your political system.

Only way anything will get done.. is if either side wins absolute majority in the house and senate (60+ seats), and the White House.. and even then it is not a done deal.

So yes, there will be another cluster**** on the debt limit, and yes everyone will be held hostage with maybe a shutdown, and both sides will blame each other.... and in the end, the deficit limit will be raised, with symbolic changes to spending.

Naomi Klein in her seminal work The Shock Doctrine has been bang on since the day the book was published. I am afraid that we are on our way to serfdom. The powers that be will continue to drain the middle class via a series of manipulated and often purposely created crisis. The war on terror, the war on drugs, Wall Street are the current prime examples. It's bigger than both parties.

AdamT said:

Sadly there is no spin involved. The fact is that Democrats are willing to agree to spending cuts far in excess of what they think we should implement at this time, so long as they are balanced by modest revenue hikes.

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It doesn't matter what they are willing to agree to. They have consistently reneged on spending cuts, and thus shown themselves to be flat out liars when it comes to any deal they make regarding cuts.

Arbo said:

It doesn't matter what they are willing to agree to. They have consistently reneged on spending cuts, and thus shown themselves to be flat out liars when it comes to any deal they make regarding cuts.

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The only ones reneging are the Republicans. Bait And Switch: GOP Leaders Renege On Debt Limit Deal Defense Cuts | TPMDC

Maybe its time to call the Republicans' bluff. Let them intentionally crash the credit of the United States and the economy with it, then never elect another one of them at any level of government again. It would certainly suck in the short term, but at least we'd be rid of the pestilence that is the Republican party.

AdamT said:

The only ones reneging are the Republicans. Bait And Switch: GOP Leaders Renege On Debt Limit Deal Defense Cuts | TPMDC

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Yes, you have repeated that talking point before. OMG, they want to actually cut more, how horrible. The reality is, if you look at history, the (D)'s have agreed to cuts in the past, those cuts NEVER happened. Just look back at Bush Sr's 'no new taxes' stuff, the taxes that came were part of a bargain where taxes were raised but cuts were made, the cuts never came. Not the first or last time the (D)'s did this.

Arbo said:

Yes, you have repeated that talking point before. OMG, they want to actually cut more, how horrible. The reality is, if you look at history, the (D)'s have agreed to cuts in the past, those cuts NEVER happened. Just look back at Bush Sr's 'no new taxes' stuff, the taxes that came were part of a bargain where taxes were raised but cuts were made, the cuts never came. Not the first or last time the (D)'s did this.

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I believe they got Reagan too.

Arbo said:

Yes, you have repeated that talking point before. OMG, they want to actually cut more, how horrible.

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No, what they want to do is go back on their word, and if you can read, they aren't even trying to cut more. They just want to go back on WHERE they promised the cuts would come from.

AdamT said:

No, what they want to do is go back on their word, and if you can read, they aren't even trying to cut more. They just want to go back on WHERE they promised the cuts would come from.

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Totally ignoring history. Figured as much for a clear partisan.

teamosil said:

Maybe its time to call the Republicans' bluff. Let them intentionally crash the credit of the United States and the economy with it, then never elect another one of them at any level of government again. It would certainly suck in the short term, but at least we'd be rid of the pestilence that is the Republican party.

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America won't recover. The Republicans aren't bluffing. Either the Democrats give in or over the cliff we go. The credit rating won't be restored. Maybe it's time for a new constitutional convention.

The past can't be restored. If America's credit rating is cut for a second time the standard of living will decline significantly permanently.

AdamT said:

Sadly there is no spin involved. The fact is that Democrats are willing to agree to spending cuts far in excess of what they think we should implement at this time, so long as they are balanced by modest revenue hikes. In contrast, Republicans will not accept any revenue hikes whatsoever. It's their way or the highway (to hell), and the highway ain't paved with good intentions.

So it is simply FACTUAL that Democrats are being more reasonable and Republicans are holding a gun to the nation's head because they flat-out refuse to compromise.

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This is spin on your part, but nicely done. So if the Dems don't get the increase revenue, its "the highway' and no deal?. Both sides are so dug in it is sickening. Why do you continue to support one side? It is clear both are too party based to do anything constructive.

mike2810 said:

So if the Dems don't get the increase revenue, its "the highway' and no deal?

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Yeah, it has to be. We can't just let the Republicans put the deficit on the backs of the middle class alone.

Democrats aren't dealing with old style Republicans any more. Business as usual is worse than a cut in the country's credit rating. Maybe an increase in borrowing costs will reduce America's appetite for borrowing. Maybe that would be a good thing in the long run.

Albert Di Salvo said:

Democrats aren't dealing with old style Republicans any more. Business as usual is worse than a cut in the country's credit rating. Maybe an increase in borrowing costs will reduce America's appetite for borrowing. Maybe that would be a good thing in the long run.

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If the Dems compromise with cuts and demand increased revenue and the Reps just come back with no increased revenue, the Reps will be held responsible if the credit rating decreases.

Albert Di Salvo said:

America won't recover. The Republicans aren't bluffing. Either the Democrats give in or over the cliff we go. The credit rating won't be restored. Maybe it's time for a new constitutional convention.

The past can't be restored. If America's credit rating is cut for a second time the standard of living will decline significantly permanently.

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THIS is the kind of thinking that's very dangerous. "Either you give in to our demands, or we'll just trash everything." You're basically saying the TP should hold the rest of us hostage until we comply with them.

AdamT said:

Sadly there is no spin involved. The fact is that Democrats are willing to agree to spending cuts far in excess of what they think we should implement at this time, so long as they are balanced by modest revenue hikes. In contrast, Republicans will not accept any revenue hikes whatsoever. It's their way or the highway (to hell), and the highway ain't paved with good intentions. So it is simply FACTUAL that Democrats are being more reasonable and Republicans are holding a gun to the nation's head because they flat-out refuse to compromise.

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Agreeing to cuts that never happen is of value how?

TheNextEra said:

If the Dems compromise with cuts and demand increased revenue and the Reps just come back with no increased revenue, the Reps will be held responsible if the credit rating decreases.

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I'm not convinced that's the case. Democrats would have to allow Social Security, Medicare, and Medicaid to be reworked in exchange for new revenue. Reagan and George H. W. Bush both tried to compromise with Democrats on spending and taxes and they got rolled. Taxes went up, but subsequent Congresses didn't cut spending.

That tells me there isn't sufficient good faith to attempt negotiations. Negotiating with Democrats is like negotiating with North Koreans. There is no such thing as a "done deal."

rocket88 said:

THIS is the kind of thinking that's very dangerous. "Either you give in to our demands, or we'll just trash everything." You're basically saying the TP should hold the rest of us hostage until we comply with them.

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Rock,

I'm not a member of the Tea Party. Those folks are way too tame for my tastes. I'm a party of one. I march in Gay Pride parades, but I do so dressed as Ghengis Khan.

On a more serious note, there is no problem with potential default. Spend less and debt limit won't be exceeded. Eliminate half the Air Force and most of the Army. Bingo. Problem solved for a few years.