Thread: New battle over debt limit inevitable?

Originally Posted by Albert Di Salvo

Democrats aren't dealing with old style Republicans any more. Business as usual is worse than a cut in the country's credit rating. Maybe an increase in borrowing costs will reduce America's appetite for borrowing. Maybe that would be a good thing in the long run.

If the Dems compromise with cuts and demand increased revenue and the Reps just come back with no increased revenue, the Reps will be held responsible if the credit rating decreases.

Originally Posted by Albert Di Salvo

America won't recover. The Republicans aren't bluffing. Either the Democrats give in or over the cliff we go. The credit rating won't be restored. Maybe it's time for a new constitutional convention.

The past can't be restored. If America's credit rating is cut for a second time the standard of living will decline significantly permanently.

THIS is the kind of thinking that's very dangerous. "Either you give in to our demands, or we'll just trash everything." You're basically saying the TP should hold the rest of us hostage until we comply with them.

Originally Posted by AdamT

Sadly there is no spin involved. The fact is that Democrats are willing to agree to spending cuts far in excess of what they think we should implement at this time, so long as they are balanced by modest revenue hikes. In contrast, Republicans will not accept any revenue hikes whatsoever. It's their way or the highway (to hell), and the highway ain't paved with good intentions. So it is simply FACTUAL that Democrats are being more reasonable and Republicans are holding a gun to the nation's head because they flat-out refuse to compromise.

Agreeing to cuts that never happen is of value how?

Originally Posted by TheNextEra

If the Dems compromise with cuts and demand increased revenue and the Reps just come back with no increased revenue, the Reps will be held responsible if the credit rating decreases.

I'm not convinced that's the case. Democrats would have to allow Social Security, Medicare, and Medicaid to be reworked in exchange for new revenue. Reagan and George H. W. Bush both tried to compromise with Democrats on spending and taxes and they got rolled. Taxes went up, but subsequent Congresses didn't cut spending.

That tells me there isn't sufficient good faith to attempt negotiations. Negotiating with Democrats is like negotiating with North Koreans. There is no such thing as a "done deal."

Originally Posted by rocket88

THIS is the kind of thinking that's very dangerous. "Either you give in to our demands, or we'll just trash everything." You're basically saying the TP should hold the rest of us hostage until we comply with them.

Rock,

I'm not a member of the Tea Party. Those folks are way too tame for my tastes. I'm a party of one. I march in Gay Pride parades, but I do so dressed as Ghengis Khan.

On a more serious note, there is no problem with potential default. Spend less and debt limit won't be exceeded. Eliminate half the Air Force and most of the Army. Bingo. Problem solved for a few years.

Originally Posted by Albert Di Salvo

America won't recover. The Republicans aren't bluffing. Either the Democrats give in or over the cliff we go. The credit rating won't be restored. .....snipped to get to the point...

That is not governance; that is terrorism. If the Republicans are unable to negotiate, they are unfit for office.

Everyone that has looked at this issue seriously has suggested that the only way out of it is a mix of spending cuts (across the board) and tax increases. Anyone that tells you otherwise is either a snake-oil salesman or ignorant. To figure out the correct balance of these we need statesmanship, which means compromise, which requires negotiation.

If there is a credible economist that believes we can cut our way back to a healthy economy, kindly post that cite. I would love to hear this. (of course, there are plenty of singular wack-a-doos out there, so if you want a compelling argument, post many cites.)

Unfortunately, it is easier for political leaders to posture than to take the tough decisions necessary to pursue fiscal consolidation. Yet, if fiscal consolidation is not pursued early on when the luxury of time is present for a transition, more wrenching austerity could later become necessary. Austerity would be far more painful and far more unpopular than medium-term fiscal consolidation pursued over a 5-10-year period.

I'm hoping for a government shut down... 3-4 weeks optimally.

Originally Posted by Risky Thicket

Naomi Klein in her seminal work The Shock Doctrine has been bang on since the day the book was published. I am afraid that we are on our way to serfdom. The powers that be will continue to drain the middle class via a series of manipulated and often purposely created crisis. The war on terror, the war on drugs, Wall Street are the current prime examples. It's bigger than both parties.

Whats the end game...what do they do when they succeed in annihilating the middleclass...whos left to buy their crap and keep the economy going

Originally Posted by Ockham

I'm hoping for a government shut down... 3-4 weeks optimally.

Wont happen