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Fire capt. demoted for alleged Trayvon rant

Kreton

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Fire capt. demoted for alleged Trayvon rant - CBS News

A Miami Dade fire captain was demoted to the rank of firefighter after making alleged remarks on Facebook regarding the Trayvon Martin case, CBS Station WFOR Miami reported.

on his Facebook page: "I and my coworkers could rewrite the book on whether our urban youths are victims of racist profiling or products of their failed, (expletive), ignorant, pathetic, welfare dependent excuses for parents."

More and more Facebook and personal opinions are being used to punish people in their place of business. There is nothing wrong with what he said. He broke no laws. He had every right to say it. Yet this happens.
 
Seems like an overraction, but facebook is largely a problem child for many. I suggest being more prundent with what others see, even if this here is a clear overreaction.
 
Seems like an overraction, but facebook is largely a problem child for many. I suggest being more prundent with what others see, even if this here is a clear overreaction.

We are quickly approaching a point where you can be fired/demoted for political beliefs.
 
Fire capt. demoted for alleged Trayvon rant - CBS News

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More and more Facebook and personal opinions are being used to punish people in their place of business. There is nothing wrong with what he said. He broke no laws. He had every right to say it. Yet this happens.

His job is to lead.. and firefighters are black and white.

He was a fool to undermine discipline, good order and teamwork to go off on a stupid rant trashing Trayvon's parents
 
The potential issue comes from where he was when he made the post. We have several people where I work who have been disciplined either for making inflamatory remarks on FB through a company computer; or by posting where they were on their FB account on days they had called in sick.
 
Fire capt. demoted for alleged Trayvon rant - CBS News

More and more Facebook and personal opinions are being used to punish people in their place of business. There is nothing wrong with what he said. He broke no laws. He had every right to say it. Yet this happens.
There's actually a lot gross and wrong with what he said, but whether he should be fired for it is another story. If they thought his post or opinion would affect his performance or the quality of the department, I don't have a problem with him being fired. People shouldn't post dumb things on the Facebook profiles.
 
People are going to have to deal with the realities of social networking. It is not a private thing, it is essentially public speech. This kind of stuff, if it does any good, is that it'll hopefully start making people realize that if they ant to speak freely on social networking they need to be more careful in terms of who they keep in their network.
 
There's actually a lot gross and wrong with what he said,

What is actually wrong with what he said?

but whether he should be fired for it is another story.

I agree. But he was demoted not fired.

If they thought his post or opinion would affect his performance or the quality of the department, I don't have a problem with him being fired.

How could it?

People shouldn't post dumb things on the Facebook profiles.

Why not? Freedom of speech not applicable anymore? Should a person's job be based on their opinion of current events or political interests? I have a democratic bumper sticker and my boss is not a democrat. Should he fire me? Should I be fired for my position on the Martin case? Please do let me know exactly where we draw the line to when your personal opinion should result in a firing or demotion.
 
People are going to have to deal with the realities of social networking. It is not a private thing, it is essentially public speech. This kind of stuff, if it does any good, is that it'll hopefully start making people realize that if they ant to speak freely on social networking they need to be more careful in terms of who they keep in their network.

Zyphlin, i pose the same questions to you as I did PD. Why should a persons personal opinion on a public matter or even a political position or any other personal view cause them to lose a job or a position? Regardless of whether or not FB can be viewed by anyone it is our right to say it.
 
What is actually wrong with what he said?
The implication that racial profiling is not a significant problem and the derogatory way he referred to the parents of urban youth.

I agree. But he was demoted not fired.
My mistake.

How could it?
You'd have to ask them for more specific reasons, if there are any, but in general, his opinions could affect how he treats the people in the community he works in and it could affect the community's trust in the fire department. Neither one of those things is good situation for such a serious job.

If he had spoken in such a derogatory manner about the people in the middle to upper middle class neighborhood I grew up in, he would have been demoted or fired for at least the latter reason.

Why not? Freedom of speech not applicable anymore? Should a person's job be based on their opinion of current events or political interests? I have a democratic bumper sticker and my boss is not a democrat. Should he fire me? Should I be fired for my position on the Martin case? Please do let me know exactly where we draw the line to when your personal opinion should result in a firing or demotion.
You shouldn't post dumb things on your Facebook because you don't know where your boss draws the line. Whether your bosses line is acceptable or not is up to you to decide.
 
Peter Principle.. Too dumb to lead men.

The implication that racial profiling is not a significant problem and the derogatory way he referred to the parents of urban youth.

My mistake.


You'd have to ask them for more specific reasons, if there are any, but in general, his opinions could affect how he treats the people in the community he works in and it could affect the community's trust in the fire department. Neither one of those things is good situation for such a serious job.

If he had spoken in such a derogatory manner about the people in the middle to upper middle class neighborhood I grew up in, he would have been demoted or fired for at least the latter reason.


You shouldn't post dumb things on your Facebook because you don't know where your boss draws the line. Whether your bosses line is acceptable or not is up to you to decide.
 
His job is to lead.. and firefighters are black and white.

He was a fool to undermine discipline, good order and teamwork to go off on a stupid rant trashing Trayvon's parents

True a fire capt. is to lead.
IMO, it is one thing to state personal opinion. It is another to make a comment as the capt.

Should comments on DP be held against the poster? Not much different than the wall on facebook.
 
You shouldn't post dumb things on your Facebook because you don't know where your boss draws the line. Whether your bosses line is acceptable or not is up to you to decide.

Sorry, but that is going to far. If he was using work computers to do this, I could understand the demotion, however freedom of speech should not be punished when you aren't using work computers.

I can understand the military punishing something like this as the military is a different organization, but this is going too far IMO.
 
Sorry, but that is going to far. If he was using work computers to do this, I could understand the demotion, however freedom of speech should not be punished when you aren't using work computers.

I can understand the military punishing something like this as the military is a different organization, but this is going too far IMO.

I completely agree. Facebook is no different than putting up a bumper sticker, or something similar. It has no bearing on his job.
 
The potential issue comes from where he was when he made the post. We have several people where I work who have been disciplined either for making inflamatory remarks on FB through a company computer; or by posting where they were on their FB account on days they had called in sick.

Off topic, but someone got fired for using their Facebook when they're sick? What are they supposed to do, sit on their hands? How ridiculous! Fired for using Facebook when your sick?! Does your place of business think that using Facebook involves an incredible amount of effort? It's the same thing if you saw them at a baseball game?

No offense, but you seem to work for an insane company!
 
The implication that racial profiling is not a significant problem and the derogatory way he referred to the parents of urban youth.

The fact is many urban youths are being failed by their parents. But whether or not you agree with him, it is his opinion and he is entitled to it.
 
Off topic, but someone got fired for using their Facebook when they're sick? What are they supposed to do, sit on their hands? How ridiculous! Fired for using Facebook when your sick?! Does your place of business think that using Facebook involves an incredible amount of effort? It's the same thing if you saw them at a baseball game?

No offense, but you seem to work for an insane company!

I think he meant when you call in sick then post how much fun you are having at disney world or something similar.
 
Sorry, but that is going to far. If he was using work computers to do this, I could understand the demotion, however freedom of speech should not be punished when you aren't using work computers.

I can understand the military punishing something like this as the military is a different organization, but this is going too far IMO.
Doesn't matter. My point in the post you quoted is that bosses demote, fire or otherwise punish people for things they post on places like Facebook. This isn't a matter of "should," this is a matter of reality. And the reality is that if you don't want to get fired or demoted, don't post dumb things on your Facebook.
 
Doesn't matter. My point in the post you quoted is that bosses demote, fire or otherwise punish people for things they post on places like Facebook. This isn't a matter of "should," this is a matter of reality. And the reality is that if you don't want to get fired or demoted, don't post dumb things on your Facebook.

It is not a dumb thing. he was expressing his opinion thru a private channel.
 
It is not a dumb thing. he was expressing his opinion thru a private channel.

if a NYC teacher posted on FB that he likes sex with little boys, I would want him fired.

the fact is, civil servants are bound by a code-of-conduct, that some might find unfair and unjust.
 
It is not a dumb thing. he was expressing his opinion thru a private channel.
Something being dumb is not contingent on whether it is an opinion expressed through a private channel. In the context of being employed, it is dumb if it's something that you can reasonably expect your boss to think of as a negative reflection on your place of work. Same thing goes for stuff like drunk pictures.
 
hmmm. did you not say that he wrong for saying it?
I said that the implication that racial profiling is not a significant problem and the derogatory manner with which he referred to the parents of urban youth were wrong. I also said that it's dumb to post such inflammatory remarks. None of those things equates to denying "the fact that many urban youths are failed by their parents" nor to arguing that he isn't "entitled to his opinion." So again, I never said any different.
 
I completely agree. Facebook is no different than putting up a bumper sticker, or something similar. It has no bearing on his job.

Actually, open expression of bigotry DOES have bearing on his job. He works in emergency services for the public. Open expression of ideological racism sends a rather clear message that he views certain people (urban = thinly veiled social code for "black") as being less worthy of attention/recognition/full acknowledgment than other human beings. Law enforcement and public safety personnel depend upon the public -- both in terms of funding as well as in terms of information, citizen cooperation, etc. -- in order to operate at their best. A fire department should not have to second-guess its interactions with the public because a mid-level leader within its ranks is known to harbor bigoted views of a significant portion of the public. Effective cooperation between fire departments, police departments, and the general public is made easy or difficult according to the relationship these institutions have with everyday people. This cooperation is undermined if and when the public has good reason to believe critical personnel have irrational prejudices towards people based upon imagined features.

If the man in question performed a job which didn't require or depend upon positive interaction with the public (like staying at the fire station and tinkering on/maintaining the fire engines and associated gear), then that mechanic/technician could indeed be as bigoted as he wanted to be, and it wouldn't have any direct bearing on his work role. Firefighters, however, DO interact with the public, and rely upon establishing a certain minimum baseline of trust, for the sake of the public's safety as well as their own.
 
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