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Thread: Mexico is just getting worse

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    Re: Mexico is just getting worse

    Quote Originally Posted by lizzie View Post
    Unfortunately, the general population of Mexico doesn't seem to have the backbone or the heart to fix the problems which are currently plaguing the country. As a general rule, the Mexican people are a good-natured, hard-working, simple, family-centered group of people. That being said, they don't like to face problems head-on, because they don't want the cultural disturbance it would cause. I have a lot of friends who are Mexican immigrants. Whenever I ask them questions or make observations about what is happening in Mexico, they invariably want to close their eyes to the situation, as if they can just wish it away, and they have an attitude that the people causing the problem need appeasement. It's very sad.
    This is true to an extent. But I really think that the crux of the matter is that the Mexican people don't have the economy needed to police the drug trade effectively.

    The drug trade is such big business that Mexico doesn't have an economy sufficient enough to compete with it. Therefore, they can't pay the monies needed to properly clamp down on it.

    Afghanistan has the same problem in regards to opium. Farmers don't grow poppy because they want to be criminals - they grow poppies because it's one of the few things that thrives, and so they grow it as a cash crop to earn them some money. They do it because poppy farming is one of the few economically viable industries they have.
    Also, we need to legalize recreational drugs and prostitution.

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    Re: Mexico is just getting worse

    Murder and rape are crimes because they are impositions of violence against other people.

    When a person chooses to take a recreational drug himself there is no violence against anyone.

    You cannot equate the two.
    People are far more violent on drugs. That has been shown.

    For one, you can limit the supply to how much people can get at a time. Now will there be people who will get a work-around on this? Yes. But there will also be less violence involved as well.
    No it wouldnt. You'd have a bunch of meth heads running around robbing and killing people for their meth. It would likely cause more violence.

    Legalization of drugs isn't helping people getting addicted to drugs. Not any more than allowing tobacco to be legal to smoke helps people to become smokers. Or not any more than allowing alcohol to be drunk helps people to become alcoholics.

    And treatment for those who want to get help is a more efficient use of resources that trying to stop everyone who wants to use them through the use of violence.
    You have got to be kidding. This is just rediculous.

    I think it is more decent to just allow people to use the recreational drugs they want to than to allow the drug trade to stay criminalized so only criminals control it and those who use drugs are put in jail with other criminals whose crimes victimize others. Especially when the latter comes out of taxes that I have to pay for.
    You dont fix crime by legalizing criminal behaviors. That is completely absurd.
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    Re: Mexico is just getting worse

    Quote Originally Posted by muciti View Post
    People are far more violent on drugs. That has been shown.
    Depends on the drug. Meth and PCP can lead to violence. Psychedelics emphatically do not. With respect to marijuana, there have been about a dozen major studies (generally commissioned by governments) over the course of the last century or so that have universally demonstrated that marijuana does not lead to violent or aggressive behavior (or, criminal behavior of any stripe). Pretty much the only thing pot leads to is junk food and an unhealthy obsession with pink floyd.
    Last edited by Aderleth; 05-15-12 at 06:37 PM.

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    Re: Mexico is just getting worse

    Quote Originally Posted by muciti View Post
    People are far more violent on drugs. That has been shown.
    Not every drug that is illegal causes violent behavior in drug users.

    And most drug violence occurs for control of the drug trade. Take away that criminal impetus to control the drug trade and you take away the major cause of drug violence.

    Quote Originally Posted by muciti View Post
    No it wouldnt. You'd have a bunch of meth heads running around robbing and killing people for their meth. It would likely cause more violence.
    No it wouldn't, especially if we allowed meth addicts to hold low skilled jobs and didn't discriminate against them. Allow them to earn the money for them to feed their addictions and they will.

    Quote Originally Posted by muciti View Post
    You have got to be kidding. This is just rediculous.
    And yet you didn't address that point. So it's perfectly valid.

    Quote Originally Posted by muciti View Post
    You dont fix crime by legalizing criminal behaviors. That is completely absurd.
    Except not every behavior is worth being criminalized. And using recreational drugs isn't a behavior that is worth criminalizing. Therefore it should be legal.
    Also, we need to legalize recreational drugs and prostitution.

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    Re: Mexico is just getting worse

    Quote Originally Posted by JohnWOlin View Post
    Really to get to the root of the problem it is up to the Mexican government to have better control of their nation. There is little we can do in the way of controlling drugs ourself. In Afghanistan, creating poppy plants is a way of life; we have tried to retrain farmers out there to grow stuff like soy beans and such but it just doesn't stick. When we leave they go right back to the poppy seeds because it is much easier and profitable for them to grow.
    " ".......

    . Another big part could be to work with the Mexican government and deploy a couple hundred troops to Mexico.
    Frankly, the Mexican government is just about as corrupt as the drug cartels. The officials are easily bought off, and answer to no one.

    As for sending some of our troops- hell no.
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    Re: Mexico is just getting worse

    Quote Originally Posted by muciti View Post
    You dont fix crime by legalizing criminal behaviors. That is completely absurd.
    exactly - just because it's not a criminal offense doesn't mean it's not a negative blight and a problem to deal with.

    We already deal with drunks and those who do dabbled in illicit drugs quite enough as it is *with* it being controlled and/or illegal . . . so increase all that? Nope - not doing it.
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    Re: Mexico is just getting worse

    Quote Originally Posted by VanceMack View Post
    Do people REALLY believe legalizing marijuana solves this? Hey...Im all for legalizing pot...always have been and NOT to fight the drug war. But the real money is not in pot...its in heroin, and meth, and other smaller, more easily portable drugs. One of the reasons we see reduced meth labs in America is the production and distribution from mexico has gotten so much better and more efficient. So...do we decriminalize ALL drug use? Just stop arresting people? That stops usage...how exactly?
    It doesn't necessarily stop usage, which is true.

    But what is does do is stop violence caused by criminal organizations who seek to control the drug trade while it is criminalized.

    It will also allow us to spend our tax revenue on prohibiting much more important crimes, such as human trafficking and sex slavery, which are huge problems right now. So what I would like to see is the elimination of the DEA but for the money we spent on that to prohibit the modern slave trade.

    I think that is a much worse problem that trying to stop people who want to use drugs themselves.
    Also, we need to legalize recreational drugs and prostitution.

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    Re: Mexico is just getting worse

    Quote Originally Posted by samsmart View Post
    This is true to an extent. But I really think that the crux of the matter is that the Mexican people don't have the economy needed to police the drug trade effectively.

    The drug trade is such big business that Mexico doesn't have an economy sufficient enough to compete with it. Therefore, they can't pay the monies needed to properly clamp down on it.
    They don't really collectively want to clamp down on it. They would prefer to ignore it, in the hopes that it will just go away.

    You're likely right with the Afghanistan/poppy analogy, but I would think that with the level of industriousness among the Mexican people, they would be able to come up with some other industries which could enrich the country as a whole.
    "God is the name by which I designate all things which cross my path violently and recklessly, all things which alter my plans and intentions, and change the course of my life, for better or for worse."
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    Re: Mexico is just getting worse

    Quote Originally Posted by muciti View Post
    People are far more violent on drugs. That has been shown.
    Depends on the drug. Meth? Maybe. Pot? No way in hell. Cocaine? Maybe, depending on the underlying personality of the individual using. Meth is often home-manufactured, so I wouldn't worry too much about Mexican meth and cartel violence issue.
    "God is the name by which I designate all things which cross my path violently and recklessly, all things which alter my plans and intentions, and change the course of my life, for better or for worse."
    -C G Jung

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    Re: Mexico is just getting worse

    Quote Originally Posted by Aunt Spiker View Post
    I've never believed that - obviously: that's what I support with my stance against them.

    I can see it now: we legalize one source of an illicit substance and quickly - when crime and immoral activities directly related to it increases - our government is slaughtered for it and I'm proven correct.

    Now how ever much I love to be right - i'd rather not find out *that* way.
    The crime and immoral activities that result from drug legalization will be far less than the crime and immoral activities that result from drug criminalization.

    Take alcohol for instance. Do people still get drunk, drive drunk, and do alcohol-related violence? Yes, they do.

    But what has been taken out of the equation is criminal organizations killing each other, police, and innocent citizens in controlling the alcohol trade.

    And I think that that reduction in organized violence will be worth the downsides of drug legalization.
    Also, we need to legalize recreational drugs and prostitution.

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