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Mexico is just getting worse

If this was the case this would have happened in Portugal where drugs have already been legalized and use has actually gone down. I dont think that we are such base creatures that the state is the only thing keeping us from being off our tits on herion every night. If i wanted to be so I need only have asked the people next door, i choose not to because its a dumb thing to do and so, i think, do most people. Generally the state is very bad at stopping people from doing things recreationally.

And i can name four . 1 reduced income for criminals 2 less deaths resulting from use if the products are properly regulated 3 less addiction if the resources used for policing drug use are redirected into treatment 4 not having a civil war on your southern border.

How could this be? You mean people weren't smoking to high, but because it was illegal?
 
Do people REALLY believe legalizing marijuana solves this? Hey...Im all for legalizing pot...always have been and NOT to fight the drug war. But the real money is not in pot...its in heroin, and meth, and other smaller, more easily portable drugs. One of the reasons we see reduced meth labs in America is the production and distribution from mexico has gotten so much better and more efficient. So...do we decriminalize ALL drug use? Just stop arresting people? That stops usage...how exactly?

By redirecting the funds into rehabilitation.
 
How could this be? You mean people weren't smoking to high, but because it was illegal?

I was talking about drugs use in general, which has gone down now that resources have been diverted into rehabilitation. But yes i think legalization would certainly take away the allure for teenagers.
 
Ever have much experience with rehab centers? :lamo

No but i've plenty of experience of those wanting to get clean but being on the waiting list forever and a day because they are underfunded, and again this has worked in the Netherlands and Portugal.
 
No but i've plenty of experience of those wanting to get clean but being on the waiting list forever and a day because they are underfunded, and again this has worked in the Netherlands and Portugal.
It doesnt work here. We court mandate people into 'treatment' where they are in centers for 1-3 months. They are clean and sober and even have some basic life skills...and they get out and go right back into using. Now...you find a way to change everyones environment where they come from healthy families with positive outlooks on life...now we are talking potential for change. Til then? At best we shift addictions and symptoms.

Legalizing some drugs is an answer...but not the answer to mexicos drug problem.
 
Really to get to the root of the problem it is up to the Mexican government to have better control of their nation. There is little we can do in the way of controlling drugs ourself. In Afghanistan, creating poppy plants is a way of life; we have tried to retrain farmers out there to grow stuff like soy beans and such but it just doesn't stick. When we leave they go right back to the poppy seeds because it is much easier and profitable for them to grow.

A big part of it would be to legalize some drugs. You can beef up border security all you want, the war on drugs just cannot be won. Another big part could be to work with the Mexican government and deploy a couple hundred troops to Mexico.
 
Really to get to the root of the problem it is up to the Mexican government to have better control of their nation. There is little we can do in the way of controlling drugs ourself. In Afghanistan, creating poppy plants is a way of life; we have tried to retrain farmers out there to grow stuff like soy beans and such but it just doesn't stick. When we leave they go right back to the poppy seeds because it is much easier and profitable for them to grow.

What we really need to do both in Afghanistan and Mexico is too look into why out economic system makes it more economically sound for farmers to grow drugs then it does to grow food. This would be particularly useful in Afghanistan considering the ****storm that rising population and the scarcity of food are about to create in the region.
 
Our society is already inundated with legal drugs such as Prozac, Viagra, Marlboros, Budweiser, and Maxwell's House. Our society hasn't been undone yet.

Somehow I think that cigarettes, or coffee is just a little different than heroin, and cocaine....


j-mac
 
Not a great analogy because the objection we have with murder is related to the nature of the act itself, the problems we have with drug use (addiction, money for organised crime, overdoses, side effects etc.) are all either symptomatic of prohibition or could be allieviated by legalization.

Not true at all.

Control the dossage and the over crap typically thrown in (who'd have thought allowing criminals to monopolise a product would make it so dangerous) legalize only the strains of Marijuana with less THC and more HTC.

You think you can control the dosage of meth? So you'd give everyone X amount? So the people who dont want to smoke meth will be selling it to those who want more. What then? Would that be illegal? Think about your answer.

I've already shown how legalization will not dramatically increase use, again the case of Portugal shows that it may reduce it

You have not shown that. Not one bit.

Put simply this is more about doing what actually works, you think its worthwhile to bring a country to its knees over a plant?

The same could be applied to anything. We do not give in to violence, threats of violence or terrorism.
 
Not true at all.



You think you can control the dosage of meth? So you'd give everyone X amount? So the people who dont want to smoke meth will be selling it to those who want more. What then? Would that be illegal? Think about your answer.



You have not shown that. Not one bit.



The same could be applied to anything. We do not give in to violence, threats of violence or terrorism.

Want to add some logical arguments to that?
 
Well......if the Portugal does it we should too!

If it works then I dont see why not. Unless you want to continue to pursue policies that don't work purely out of spite.
 
Legalize pot and grow it in your backyard, then the cartels will be deprived of buissness and will no longer be better armed/funded than the Mexican army and police force.
You know, in retrospect, the decision by the Justice Department to sell Ak-47s, .50 calibre sniper rifles and five-sevens to said drug-cartels -- probably not a good idea.
 
What the heck is going on with Mexico? It seems to be getting worse. Is this country going to just implode? When the drug cartels clearly rule the roost, what can be done? Is there anything that can be done to fix this?


[video]http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/21134540/vp/47426255#47426255[/video]

A good place to start reducing the influence of drug cartels would be to limit their current competitive advantage in the US. How? Legalize marijuana. I've seen different numbers on this, but let's say that 40% of cross-border drug trafficking consists of marijuana imports to the US. If marijuana were suddenly made legal and regulated, the drug cartels would lose 40% of their income to legitimate, probably US domestic businesses. That would cut their legs right out from under them.
 
If it works then I dont see why not. Unless you want to continue to pursue policies that don't work purely out of spite.

Portugal also has only a 28% graduation rate. Should we copy that? They have a much higher than average unemployment rate. They export and produce very little. Sorry if mirroring Portugal seems retarded to me. If I wanted to live in a third world country who was too lazy to produce anything other than cork I'd just move there. It seems they are not the best country to mimic.
 
Portugal also has only a 28% graduation rate. Should we copy that? They have a much higher than average unemployment rate. They export and produce very little. Sorry if mirroring Portugal seems retarded to me. If I wanted to live in a third world country who was too lazy to produce anything other than cork I'd just move there. It seems they are not the best country to mimic.

In terms of being a country that has only recently emerged from a fascist dictatorship no, in terms of drug policy yes.
 
In terms of being a country that has only recently emerged from a fascist dictatorship no, in terms of drug policy yes.

One could argue that their drug policy has a lot to with their other economic and social problems. It is probably harder to graduate and produce goods and services when you are high off your ass all the time.
 
One could argue that their drug policy has a lot to with their other economic and social problems. It is probably harder to graduate and produce goods and services when you are high off your ass all the time.

Somehow i think the past few hundred years of feudalism and dictatorship have played a much greater role then the legalization of drugs in 2000, and again drug use has gone down since legalization. Lastly i dont know where we get the idea that agrarian societies are more lazy, I've worked on farms and its damn hard work.
 
Somehow i think the past few hundred years of feudalism and dictatorship have played a much greater role then the legalization of drugs in 2000, and again drug use has gone down since legalization. Lastly i dont know where we get the idea that agrarian societies are more lazy, I've worked on farms and its damn hard work.

Are they producing? Why not?
 
Are they producing? Why not?

they are producing all right there are just producing the wrong stuff (due to not being industrialised enough) I would love to go into a potted history of the economic development of Northern and Southern Europe respectively but i struggle to see how this links to their drugs policy.
 
A good place to start reducing the influence of drug cartels would be to limit their current competitive advantage in the US. How? Legalize marijuana. I've seen different numbers on this, but let's say that 40% of cross-border drug trafficking consists of marijuana imports to the US. If marijuana were suddenly made legal and regulated, the drug cartels would lose 40% of their income to legitimate, probably US domestic businesses. That would cut their legs right out from under them.

I would add to that; make a good immigration policy for the land of immigrants. One that helps people follow our laws while still immigrating.
 
There was a time when cigarettes were being used by almost everyone in the country. A large majority of Americans drink regularly. Do you know how ****ed up being belief a person's life would become if they were using meth and heroin a few times a week like people consume alcohol?

And yet there were still teetotalers and people who never smoked in their life.

Just because people have a choice in using something doesn't mean they will always choose to do it.

The price of giving people that choice is less that the price we pay in blood and gold trying to take that choice away from them.
 
Ah, yes, always the simple liberal answer.

Can you imagine how unproductive much of our citizenry would become if they could take drugs at will, and companies could no longer screen for them when hiring?

"Hey, Hal, what'd you do this weekend?"

"Not much. Shot heroine on Saturday night, so I was pretty catatonic all day Sunday. Totally missed work on Monday, dude."

Except alcohol is legal, and companies are able to fire people for showing up to work when they're drunk.

Same with other recreational drugs. If an employee shows up for work while intoxicated - no matter what that intoxicant is - they can be fired for it.

Just like they are now.
 
Though Mexican history is interesting...it does not matter in the current situation. The massive and abrupt change in dynamics is 100% drug related.

They can make a lot of money by getting it here (an elsewhere ), and so they resort to massive violence to make as much money as they can.

We, Here, no longer accept violence means to make money, but we once did.

In Mexico....they still do. Let them kill each other like we did, eventually they will come around.
 
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