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Thread: Mexico is just getting worse

  1. #21
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    Re: Mexico is just getting worse

    Quote Originally Posted by Red_Dave View Post
    Its includes pot as a major component, Mexican Drug War - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia And considering how ridiculously easy it is to grow, pot is extremely profitable by virtue of its illegalisation. Furthermore, though i admit to choosing pot as the arguments are stronger, you could apply the same arguments to cocaine, you would have far less deaths if the dosage was appropriately regulated.
    I support legalization of marijuana and I dont' believe it would stop any of this in the slightest . . . so move onto other things like cocaine. And when that falls out of demand - then the next thing - and the next - and the next. You'd have to legalize *everything* - and then what? Do you think, if they're willing to wage a war on their own countrymen that they're going to just dissolve after being on top?

    You could even focus on the drug production that is IN the US: like meth. If we already have an extensive amount of production in the US then what's your argument?
    Last edited by Aunt Spiker; 05-15-12 at 10:26 AM.
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    Re: Mexico is just getting worse

    Quote Originally Posted by Red_Dave View Post
    Legalize pot and grow it in your backyard, then the cartels will be deprived of buissness and will no longer be better armed/funded than the Mexican army and police force.
    Then, the cartels will be dodging taxes and there will still be an underground drug trade, that is just as big and just as bloody.
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  3. #23
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    Re: Mexico is just getting worse

    Quote Originally Posted by Aunt Spiker View Post
    I support legalization of marijuana and I dont' believe it would stop any of this in the slightest . . . so move onto other things like cocaine. And when that falls out of demand - then the next thing - and the next - and the next. You'd have to legalize *everything* - and then what? Do you think, if they're willing to wage a war on their own countrymen that they're going to just dissolve after being on top?
    They would have a hard time remaining on top without the funding that the illegalisation of drugs brings. Look at what happened to organized crime in the U.S after the end of prohibition. What cant be emphasized enough is that these products would be worth very little where it not for their being illegal. If you go to somewhere like Peru or Bolivia you will find that cocaine is very much a poor man's drug and is often used as an alternative to food, its only when it is smuggled to the first world that it becomes valuable. Legalization of drugs certainly wouldnt make the cartels vanish but it would deprive them of a lot of funding thus giving the (comparatively under funded) Mexican security forces a chance.

    And for this reason the more drugs are produced in the u.s the better for all concerned. Its in the United States interest not to have Somalia II to its southern border.
    Last edited by Red_Dave; 05-15-12 at 10:41 AM.

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    Re: Mexico is just getting worse

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    Then, the cartels will be dodging taxes and there will still be an underground drug trade, that is just as big and just as bloody.
    dodging taxes on what? there will be nothing as profitable to sell with all the competition that legalization would create.

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    Re: Mexico is just getting worse

    Quote Originally Posted by Red_Dave View Post
    dodging taxes on what? there will be nothing as profitable to sell with all the competition that legalization would create.
    hmm - if we legalized all drugs and regulated it I doubt it would maintain it's current black market value. Liquor didn't. And of course - when everyone's legaly addicted to drugs then what? No - not if young children would be the only victims left in the end to suffer any.

    If we did so - society would quickly fall into all of it (again) and we'd be revisiting the 'good days when it was illegal and hard to get'
    Last edited by Aunt Spiker; 05-15-12 at 10:57 AM.
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    Re: Mexico is just getting worse

    Quote Originally Posted by Aunt Spiker View Post
    Looking beyond the aspect of drug legalization for the moment: the principle behind the idea that we should dictate our policies based on how it might negatively effect other nations would lead us to bowing to other's problems rather than trying to continue to uphold stability in our own nation and control our own issues.

    At what point would we stop doing that? If we started ending policies because of how it might affect other nations then at what point do we stop being a nation to ourselves and our own values and instead start fussing more over how we affect others?

    Where do we then draw the line? How much should we let other nations weigh in on our beliefs, values, laws and regulations?

    The 'legs' that such a policy-change could grow is the crux of the reason why I oppose starting those types of policy reversals. don't get me wrong - I've read quite a bit into how it negatively affects other nations (not just Mexico) - and it's not just resulting in violence but in other areas it's resulted in the drug-trade being the only employment for young men - and entire families have been lost purely for the fact taht the young man leaves home to find a job = works for a drug cartel = becomes and addict = his money home to family stops = the suffer.

    I'm well aware . . . and while very tempting to want to support a reversal just to enable these nations to pick up the pieces - I just can't do it at the perile of our OWN nation.
    No man is an island unto itself.

    No nation is either.

    What we do affects others and what others do affects us.

    I understand the principle of your idea, but, with all due respect, reality still reigns supreme.
    Also, we need to legalize recreational drugs and prostitution.

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    Re: Mexico is just getting worse

    You wanna see **** get even worse in this country? Lets get everyone addicted to meth, crack and heroin. It has worked so well for those on it. Drugs are illegal for a reason.
    “Most people do not listen with the intent to understand; they listen with the intent to reply.”
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    Re: Mexico is just getting worse

    Quote Originally Posted by Aunt Spiker View Post
    They could deal with their issues IF THEY WANTED TO really get it done - but they've let it go for SO long that it's just exploded.
    Errr, no. That's not how it happened.

    What happened was that ever since the 1970's, the U.S. federal government decided to crack down on recreational drugs. Prior to the 1970's, marijuana, while illegal, wasn't prosecuted quite so harshly. However, Nixon decided to up the ante as a way to split the Democratic Party voters between blue collar workers and the youth hippie movement on his Law and Order campaign.

    During the 1980's, Reagan increased the War on Drugs even further. The reason for this was because of the proliferation of crack cocaine throughout the inner-city urban areas of the U.S. Crack was invented because it was a greater concentration of cocaine in a smaller physical sample which meant that drug dealers could get more bang for their buck by selling it.

    Because Central America and South America are natural regions where the plants used in the production of cocaine are grown, the War on Drugs also gave Reagan the causus belli to intervene in those countries. The reason why is because those countries are also prone to socialist and communist movements that threaten the more capitalistic regimes. Because socialist and communist paramilitary movements in Central and South America use the drug trade to fund their activities, Reagan was able to connect them to drug cartels and, in the eyes of the public, was able to justify military intervention in Latin America.

    What has been forgotten about the American public, though, is the reason why Marxist guerilla movements have been so prevalent in Central and South America. It is because during the late 1800's and early-to-mid 1900's the U.S. government used its military to defend the business interests of international corporations established down there who profited by supressing the workers who inhabited those countries. These military occupations were known as the Banana Wars, and his experiences fighting in these conflict led Major General Smedley Butler, USMC, to write a pamphlet titled "War Is A Racket" in the 1930's that detailed the military-industrial-congressional complex that led to the U.S. military being used to protect the profits of multinational businesses.

    This was why the leftist paramilitaries wound up being established in Latin America, and why Latin America has a strong history of socialist and communist policies - it's because of the abuses they suffered by U.S. corporations about 150 years ago.

    Now while these leftist guerilla groups may have started out as political rebellions, they have since evolved into drug cartels out to make profits for themselves.

    You see, by keeping recreational drugs illegal drug cartels have a monopoly on the recreational drug trade. And these regions in Latin America are so poor that working in the drug trade is the only way that many of those involved can make money.

    And I'm not just talking about those who engage in the violence of the illegal drug trade. Just average guys earn paychecks by delivering the drugs, or by counting the money, or by helping to manufacture the drugs that are sold. The illegal drug trade is a business like any other and, for the poorest regions that have limited ability to develop economically, they see the drug cartels not as criminal organizations but rather as job creators.

    That's the way it is in Mexico. Mexico is so full of drug violence because it is a buffer state between the U.S. and Central America. For drugs to travel from Central and South America, they have to do so through Mexico. Therefore, Mexico is a valuable pipeline from the source of drugs - Latin America - to the demand of drugs - the United States.

    The Mexican government knows this, and it has honestly tried to crack down on the drug cartels. But it is incredibly difficult. Why?

    Because working for a drug cartels can earn an individual much more money than working for their federal police.

    Mexico isn't a wealthy nation by any means. Therefore, the ability for the Mexican government to tax its citizens is limited as well. And the Mexican government has to pay for the anti-drug task forces with tax dollars. But it is loathed to increase taxes because doing so will push out the reason why most multinational corporations go there - for the cheaper labor.

    Which means the Mexican government does not have the tax revenue to pay for the police forces needed to act as enough of a counter to the drug cartels.

    This is made quite clear by how one drug cartel, Los Zetas, came to be founded.

    The Zetas drug cartel was founded by several members of the Mexican military. They were soldiers who fought against existing drug cartels and helped to crack down on them. But then they realized that they could make more money by taking over the drug trade than fighting against it. So what they did was use the military training and equipment at their disposal to become a major cartel of their own.

    So in this case we have resources designed to help stop drugs being turned against the Mexican government and become a cartel in their own right.

    This shows that the War on Drugs is very much an issue of the economy rather than an issue of violence. The people of Mexico and Latin America make so much money on the recreational drug economy. For many who are not part of the violence, it is their only way to make a decent living to take care of themselves and their families.

    And many of them don't want to be involved with the violence of being part of a cartel. They don't like that their rivals or even their bosses could shoot them in the back of the head at any time for any reason. But they don't have any recourse. Why? Because the drug trade is such a major part of the Mexican economy and hires so many people.

    But the violence is there only because the drug trade is kept criminal. Take the criminalization out of the drug trade and you allow those who aren't criminals to exert more and more control over it. Allow it to be taxed so the Mexican government can pay for essential government services. Allow businesses to deal in it so that competition will be done by market forces rather than by death squads.

    It isn't that the Mexican government hasn't tried to do anything about it, because over the course of decades they have. The problem is that the drug trade is such a large part of the economy that they don't have any other economic resources that can compete with it.

    And, really, all Mexico would really have to do is legalize all recreational drugs in their own country. That would allow Mexico to become a resort country and a focus of drug tourism from the U.S. But the U.S. government will exert so much pressure that they won't do that.

    Which is funny since it's a case of the Mexican government not being able to make it's own internal decision because of outside influence from the U.S.

    Either way you look at it, though, the only way out of the drug violence is legalization. Any other solution is only a call to increase the violence, which hasn't worked at all for the past 40 years.
    Also, we need to legalize recreational drugs and prostitution.

  9. #29
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    Re: Mexico is just getting worse

    Quote Originally Posted by muciti View Post
    You wanna see **** get even worse in this country? Lets get everyone addicted to meth, crack and heroin. It has worked so well for those on it. Drugs are illegal for a reason.
    Cigarettes are legal. The number of smokers has actually decreased.

    Alcohol is legal. People aren't drunk constantly.

    Just because a drug is legal does not inherently mean many people will use it. Just because people have a choice to use something doesn't mean their choice will be to use it. And allowing those who do use those that choice will be much better than trying to imprison them for that choice.
    Also, we need to legalize recreational drugs and prostitution.

  10. #30
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    Re: Mexico is just getting worse

    Xenophobia! Xenophobia! Run away! Run away!

    We go to Mexico all the time. We were in Puerto Peñasco a couple of weeks ago. There are area where you might run into trouble but it's not like those areas are a secret. LOL! Avoid them and you're fine. Mexicans are good people. Mexico is a beautiful country.

    We'll go Puerto Vallarta this year and a planning to go to Guanajuato.

    The biggest issue for Mexico is America's insatiable habit for illegal drugs. There would be no drug wars if Americans weren't funding them.










    "When Faith preaches Hate, Blessed are the Doubters." - Amin Maalouf

    When trouble arises and things look bad, there is always one individual who perceives a solution and is willing to take command. Very often, that person is crazy. ~Dave Barry



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