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Thread: Mexico is just getting worse

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    Re: Mexico is just getting worse

    Mercenaries.
    "Human kindness has never weakened the stamina or softened the fiber of a free people. A nation does not have to be cruel to be tough."
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    Re: Mexico is just getting worse

    Quote Originally Posted by Jredbaron96 View Post
    Mercenaries.
    I don't think there are enough. Seriously.

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    Re: Mexico is just getting worse

    Quote Originally Posted by Aunt Spiker View Post
    So they're our responsibility? Another nanny-nation that we have to support? We already give support each year financially to numerous nations in order for them to deal with their drug-trafficking issues that have grown as a result of our policies. That is not enough? It is not our continuing concern to mother others as if they are incapable of making serious decisions and turning things around for their selves. I guarantee you all our financial support goes to just further the cartels - and not the people whose lives have been negatively affected.

    We have a right to have our own rules and regulations and govern our own laws as we see fit without having to fret over other countries and how it might affect them at all times.

    If we enabled the open use and growth of drugs in our nation then what's next? Just how undone do you want society to become. . .really?
    Who's talking about supporting? its not so much supporting as in not continuing policies that harm both Mexico and the U.S and fuel organized crime in both. Considering that the border is basically a warzone anyway it would be mutually beneficial.

    And it wont "undo" society in the slightest, for starters illegalization does nothing to prevent use, I can get pot a lot more easily then i get can alcohol considering that bars wont deliver to my door (Not to mention the fact that alcohol is far more damaging to society).Furthermore the illegalization of cannabis actually makes it more dangerous. If you go to a 'coffee shop' in Amsterdam you are given a menu outlining the different strains available according to strength, how likely they are to make you anxious, whether inexperienced users should try them etc. If you buy from a dealer then you don't know what you are getting.

    Its also the case that certain chemicals in cannabis are actually anti psychotic ,though these occur to a different extent according to different breeds, with appropriate regulation cannabis could actually be beneficial for mental health.

    Edit: the chemical I'm talking about is called CBD http://www.guardian.co.uk/science/20...dalcohol.drugs
    Last edited by Red_Dave; 05-15-12 at 10:14 AM.

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    Re: Mexico is just getting worse

    Quote Originally Posted by Red_Dave View Post
    Who's talking about supporting? its not so much supporting as in not continuing policies that harm both Mexico and the U.S and fuel organized crime in both. Considering that the border is basically a warzone anyway it would be mutually beneficial.

    And it wont "undo" society in the slightest, for starters illegalization does nothing to prevent use, I can get pot a lot more easily then i get can alcohol considering that bars wont deliver to my door (Not to mention the fact that alcohol is far more damaging to society).Furthermore the illegalization of cannabis actually makes it more dangerous. If you go to a 'coffee shop' in Amsterdam you are given a menu outlining the different strains available according to strength, how likely they are to make you anxious, whether inexperienced users should try them etc. If you buy from a dealer then you don't know what you are getting.

    Its also the case that certain chemicals in cannabis are actually anti psychotic though these occur to a different extent according to different breeds, with appropriate regulation cannabis could actually be beneficial for mental health.
    Do you REALLY believe that they are our supplier of POT - because that's twice you've brought it up in this thread. No no - it's not POT that's in question (which I actually do support the legalization of) - no no. . . so cut that out because that is not the issue, here.

    Your belief that it's about marijuana shows how little you actually know about any of the drug trade and what they're really fighting over.

    Some weed - seriously Yeah - 49 people were just slaughtered and mutilated over some mary jane because it's so addictive and fetches a handsome price on the market.
    Last edited by Aunt Spiker; 05-15-12 at 10:12 AM.
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    Re: Mexico is just getting worse

    IMO, this is a complex matter. There are no easy answers.

    First, a popular argument would involve drug legalization (hard narcotics). That outcome would lead to an increased supply relative to demand, bringing the price of narcotics down. In turn, the lower price would lead to smaller profits for the drug cartels. That does not necessarily mean that all would end well, namely that stability would return. Instead, if lessons from stagnant or declining industries are relevant, competition could actually become more fierce. If they felt locked into a declining narcotics business on account of their specialization, investments, contacts and infrastructure (formidable exit barriers), the cartels could seek to target the public institutions and competitors that they blame for the outcome in a bid to try to reduce supply. If so, the cartels could evolve into full-fledged terrorist entities and violence could become more widespread, not less. The trade-off of a potential adverse impact on productivity and health costs would also need to be considered.

    Second, Mexico's government has primary responsibility for the problem, but Mexico's stability is in the U.S. national interest. An unstable Mexico has implications for the U.S. For example, violence could further spill over the border into the U.S. In a constructive effort, the U.S. could offer bilateral support i.e.., intelligence sharing, cooperation in dealing with cartels' cross-border operations, efforts to curb the flow of arms across the border, efforts to reduce U.S. demand, etc. Any bilateral agreement could extend beyond the issue of drug cartels to other common interests. Furthermore, the U.S. could also agree to offer understanding, not criticism, were a future Mexican government to impose a kind of emergency rule in parts of the country to try to smash the cartels.

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    Re: Mexico is just getting worse

    Yet another reason to secure the border with Mexico. We can't let this slop over into the USA.

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    Re: Mexico is just getting worse

    I like the point that it is their damn country, let them figure it out. As a neighbor, if they come to us for help, I think we can swing something. However, we have no obligation or right to do anything until they ask us. And even then, it has to be in the best interest of our country. Until then, maintain the border. Strengthen it and work on our internal issues.
    We went from sticks and stones may break my bones but words will never hurt me to safe spaces.

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    Re: Mexico is just getting worse

    Looking beyond the aspect of drug legalization for the moment: the principle behind the idea that we should dictate our policies based on how it might negatively effect other nations would lead us to bowing to other's problems rather than trying to continue to uphold stability in our own nation and control our own issues.

    At what point would we stop doing that? If we started ending policies because of how it might affect other nations then at what point do we stop being a nation to ourselves and our own values and instead start fussing more over how we affect others?

    Where do we then draw the line? How much should we let other nations weigh in on our beliefs, values, laws and regulations?

    The 'legs' that such a policy-change could grow is the crux of the reason why I oppose starting those types of policy reversals. don't get me wrong - I've read quite a bit into how it negatively affects other nations (not just Mexico) - and it's not just resulting in violence but in other areas it's resulted in the drug-trade being the only employment for young men - and entire families have been lost purely for the fact taht the young man leaves home to find a job = works for a drug cartel = becomes and addict = his money home to family stops = the suffer.

    I'm well aware . . . and while very tempting to want to support a reversal just to enable these nations to pick up the pieces - I just can't do it at the perile of our OWN nation.
    Last edited by Aunt Spiker; 05-15-12 at 10:23 AM.
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    Re: Mexico is just getting worse

    Quote Originally Posted by Aunt Spiker View Post
    Do you REALLY believe that they are our supplier of POT - because that's twice you've brought it up in this thread. No no - it's not POT that's in question (which I actually do support the legalization of) - no no. . . so cut that out because that is not the issue, here.

    Your belief that it's about marijuana shows how little you actually know about any of the drug trade and what they're really fighting over.

    Some weed - seriously Yeah - 49 people were just slaughtered and mutilated over some mary jane because it's so addictive and fetches a handsome price on the market.
    Its includes pot as a major component, Mexican Drug War - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia And considering how ridiculously easy it is to grow, pot is extremely profitable by virtue of its illegalisation. Furthermore, though i admit to choosing pot as the arguments are stronger, you could apply the same arguments to cocaine, you would have far less deaths if the dosage was appropriately regulated.

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    Re: Mexico is just getting worse

    Quote Originally Posted by Aunt Spiker View Post
    Looking beyond the aspect of drug legalization for the moment: the principle behind the idea that we should dictate our policies based on how it might negatively effect other nations would lead us to bowing to other's problems rather than trying to continue to uphold stability in our own nation and control our own issues.

    At what point would we stop doing that? If we started ending policies because of how it might affect other nations then at what point do we stop being a nation to ourselves and our own values and instead start fussing more over how we affect others?

    Where do we then draw the line? How much should we let other nations weigh in on our beliefs, values, laws and regulations?

    The 'legs' that such a policy-change could grow is the crux of the reason why I oppose starting those types of policy reversals.
    On the contrary i would argue that its typical of certain quarters to argue against persuading policies that would be of benefit domestically out of the sheer terror that another country may benefit.

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