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A Generation Hobbled by the Soaring Cost of College

It's simple supply and demand. As much as you may or may not admit it, workers are a commodity. Educated workers even more so. When a commodity exceeds demand, the price drops. :shrug:

What you're missing is that demand is not fixed. There was zero demand for database administrators 30 years ago. Now there is tons of demand for them. As more and more people get educated we move forward faster and faster with new inventions, new strategies, new business models, etc, and that drives demand up.
 
Because college education, in the indentured-servitude way it has been structured, puts inferior people in superior positions. A similar dysfunction of letting Communist Party politicians run the economy took 70 years to collapse, so it won't be long before this "Educationism" gets discredited.

wait, you want a free college education so you can then find a superior position working with inferior persons ?
Have you been tested and found to be a genius? If so, there are programs for you that will pay your books, tuition, room and board, and an allowance. How much allowance do you need?
 
What you're missing is that demand is not fixed. There was zero demand for database administrators 30 years ago. Now there is tons of demand for them. As more and more people get educated we move forward faster and faster with new inventions, new strategies, new business models, etc, and that drives demand up.

I managed a database as part of my last job, didn't pay any extra...
pay isn't fixed either....
 
What you're missing is that demand is not fixed.

What you're missing is the demand is not infinite. At 30% of the population with a 4 year or better, we already have 2-5% of degreed people unemployed.

There was zero demand for database administrators 30 years ago. Now there is tons of demand for them. As more and more people get educated we move forward faster and faster with new inventions, new strategies, new business models, etc, and that drives demand up.

And there are plenty of dead and dieing industries that make up for the gain somewhere else...Technology doesn't just create industries, it kills them too.
 
if what you are saying was possible, it would have already been done....I spent many years in the installation, calibration and repair of instrumentation, and most of that was to monitor the many parameters of nuclear power plants. It is easily overdone and never cheap. It is essential at the power plant, not essential on a car that might be on the road 10 years (average age of cars on the road).
athletes have nothing to do with this, they are just the result of stupid people paying to watch millionairs play.
the part of your post that I bolded is telling.
Those who need immediate gratification are seldom the ones who end up with college degrees.
well, maybe not, if you feed a dolphin enough fish, it can be taught new tricks, and I suppose that can work with people.
do you like fish?:2razz:
As for "it would have already been done," that accepts the illogical lie that this system of not paying people to go to college produces the people who would have done it. Just like the lie that cancer must be hard to cure, even though all we have working on it are childish escapist freaks who don't earn a living until they are 30 years old. As for dismissing the fact that only superior athletes are getting incentives that are consistent with human psychological motivation, your education leaves you incompetent to make analogies. All that matters is the superiority of the talent, not what the talent is in. Thinking that High IQs will study for "the love of learning" is as dysfunctional, insulting, and subconsciously parasitic as thinking that athletes will play for "the love of the game." The pros tried that before the 50s and most of the best college athletes refused to turn pro. Similarly, I met a Bioscience grad student who got paid $600 a week plus free tuition, but what about all the potential grad students whose talent was lost because they weren't paid that for undergraduate studies? Significantly, only one of her 14 classmates was born in America. All 15 would have been Americans if we immediately and materially rewarded them like we do superior athletes, from childhood on. What's worst of all about this insult to intelligence is that we would get people mentally superior to the grad students we have now. "Deferred gratification" is a bullying insult meant to put superior minds in their place as Cash Cows for the corporations. Let business and society think long-term instead of burdening the people who actually produce all of what the others benefit from
.
So society is upside-down in demanding that the talented sacrifice instead of the other way around. And this propaganda about college also induces jealousy, hatred, and contempt with its lie that those with intellectual talent have it easy and rewarding.
 
No there doesn't. That's called price fixing and it doesn't work, long term. However, I do support the idea of "public" universities. But I think the entry requirements should be high AND need dependent.

Sorry, I forgot to add the [sarcasm][/sarcasm] tags
 
What you're missing is the demand is not infinite. At 30% of the population with a 4 year or better, we already have 2-5% of degreed people unemployed.

Well sure. Having a degree doesn't immunize you from recessions or from the normal ebb and flow of the job market.

And there are plenty of dead and dieing industries that make up for the gain somewhere else...Technology doesn't just create industries, it kills them too.

That's right. But it tends to kill jobs that require less education and create jobs that require more education.

I mean, come on guys. Really? Now the notion that people should get educations is a controversial partisan thing? That's ridiculous. This whole right wing thing has gone way too far... It's getting absurd.
 
As for "it would have already been done," that accepts the illogical lie that this system of not paying people to go to college produces the people who would have done it. Just like the lie that cancer must be hard to cure, even though all we have working on it are childish escapist freaks who don't earn a living until they are 30 years old. As for dismissing the fact that only superior athletes are getting incentives that are consistent with human psychological motivation, your education leaves you incompetent to make analogies. All that matters is the superiority of the talent, not what the talent is in. Thinking that High IQs will study for "the love of learning" is as dysfunctional, insulting, and subconsciously parasitic as thinking that athletes will play for "the love of the game." The pros tried that before the 50s and most of the best college athletes refused to turn pro. Similarly, I met a Bioscience grad student who got paid $600 a week plus free tuition, but what about all the potential grad students whose talent was lost because they weren't paid that for undergraduate studies? Significantly, only one of her 14 classmates was born in America. All 15 would have been Americans if we immediately and materially rewarded them like we do superior athletes, from childhood on. What's worst of all about this insult to intelligence is that we would get people mentally superior to the grad students we have now. "Deferred gratification" is a bullying insult meant to put superior minds in their place as Cash Cows for the corporations. Let business and society think long-term instead of burdening the people who actually produce all of what the others benefit from
.
So society is upside-down in demanding that the talented sacrifice instead of the other way around. And this propaganda about college also induces jealousy, hatred, and contempt with its lie that those with intellectual talent have it easy and rewarding.

on the outside looking down?
how is that working out for you?
the system is what it is, and won't change overnight or just for you.
but you can use it as an excuse for your inevitable failure to achieve...
 
Well sure. Having a degree doesn't immunize you from recessions or from the normal ebb and flow of the job market.

You're right, it doesn't. Why? There's only so many jobs, and more people (with degrees) than jobs. *nudge*nudge*

That's right. But it tends to kill jobs that require less education and create jobs that require more education.

Those industries that died had degreed people running them....The electricity industry created far more skilled laborer jobs than degreed jobs. Same with the oil industry, and many others...

I mean, come on guys. Really? Now the notion that people should get educations is a controversial partisan thing? That's ridiculous. This whole right wing thing has gone way too far... It's getting absurd.

No...it's a reality thing. A degree is not necessary for a living wage, therefore it is not in any way, shape, or form....a right.
 
A degree is not necessary for a living wage, therefore it is not in any way, shape, or form....a right.

A right? What are you talking about? Nobody said anything about rights...

The question is- should our goal be just to have a population that is making a living wage? If that's the goal, hell, lets just toss out all these computers and whatnot. We can live just fine being a primarily agricultural society... I didn't realize that was your goal...
 
A right? What are you talking about? Nobody said anything about rights...

The question is- should our goal be just to have a population that is making a living wage? If that's the goal, hell, lets just toss out all these computers and whatnot. We can live just fine being a primarily agricultural society... I didn't realize that was your goal...

no, we can't....without a strong economy and strong military, we would be primarily a slave society.....
 
no, we can't....without a strong economy and strong military, we would be primarily a slave society.....

Ah, so you want more than Mac does then. You want a strong economy. He apparently just wants people getting a living wage. For a strong economy you want to max out the education. At a minimum you need to have a population that is at least as educated as the other first world countries to stay first world, but ideally we should shoot for the stars.
 
Ah, so you want more than Mac does then. You want a strong economy. He apparently just wants people getting a living wage. For a strong economy you want to max out the education. At a minimum you need to have a population that is at least as educated as the other first world countries to stay first world, but ideally we should shoot for the stars.
a living wage would be enough, no sense coddling these whiny babies any more than we are already. but no living wage or minimum wage for those who don't do their part in getting an education suitable for the living wage, and that education is HIGH SCHOOL....for most of us.
 
a living wage would be enough, no sense coddling these whiny babies any more than we are already. but no living wage or minimum wage for those who don't do their part in getting an education suitable for the living wage, and that education is HIGH SCHOOL....for most of us.

Coddling these whiny babies? What the hell are you talking about lol? The way you are analyzing this question is just insane. It makes no sense at all... You think investing in the economic future of the country is "coddling"? Coddling who lol? And who is doing the coddling to them?
 
Coddling these whiny babies? What the hell are you talking about lol? The way you are analyzing this question is just insane. It makes no sense at all... You think investing in the economic future of the country is "coddling"? Coddling who lol? And who is doing the coddling to them?

who? the whiners who can't go out in the real world and make a life for themselves, the ones who want an all expense paid luxury transition between childhood and adulthood.
But you keep hoping and wishing, at least you will be providing comedic relief to those who are actually DOING something for themselves instead of wasting time trying to garner support for an unsupportable premise.
I doubt anyone on DP got paid a salary to go to college....
 
who? the whiners who can't go out in the real world and make a life for themselves, the ones who want an all expense paid luxury transition between childhood and adulthood.
But you keep hoping and wishing, at least you will be providing comedic relief to those who are actually DOING something for themselves instead of wasting time trying to garner support for an unsupportable premise.
I doubt anyone on DP got paid a salary to go to college....

IMO Republicans just need to learn to think more pragmatically and get less easily caught up in sloganeering. All the characterization about whiners and luxuries and salaries and all that is just flat out irrelevant. The only relevant question is what the actual real world impacts of such a policy would be. It seems clear to me that the impacts would be positive- more people going to college. If we started having the government pay for all college and the exact same number of people attended as do today, on average it would be a wash. Taxes would go up a bit, but the amount each person spends on education would go down, so it would even out. If more people went to college, they would be increasing the tax revenue by more than the cost of their education, so taxes would go down. We would be saving money and at the same time boosting up our GDP. No amount of rhetoric about whiners or whatever changes that, right?
 
who? the whiners who can't go out in the real world and make a life for themselves, the ones who want an all expense paid luxury transition between childhood and adulthood.
But you keep hoping and wishing, at least you will be providing comedic relief to those who are actually DOING something for themselves instead of wasting time trying to garner support for an unsupportable premise.
I doubt anyone on DP got paid a salary to go to college....

I didn't, but I paid a whole lot less tuition that today's college kids do now, and moreover made far more money than 99% of them can now, at least if you allow for inflation.

Actually, education should not be free, not even K-12. Everyone should pay something, or education is seen as free and therefore of little value. It should not be out of reach of anyone, however, and it should be possible to graduate debt free. We don't want to make schooling difficult to obtain if we want to have an educated population.


We do want to have an educated population, don't we? The alternative is to become like a third world country.
 
A right? What are you talking about? Nobody said anything about rights...

The question is- should our goal be just to have a population that is making a living wage? If that's the goal, hell, lets just toss out all these computers and whatnot. We can live just fine being a primarily agricultural society... I didn't realize that was your goal...

It's not my goal...it's reality. There will always be a sizeable portion of society that will be limited to living wage, and another that will be limited to below living wage.
 
Ah, so you want more than Mac does then. You want a strong economy. He apparently just wants people getting a living wage. For a strong economy you want to max out the education. At a minimum you need to have a population that is at least as educated as the other first world countries to stay first world, but ideally we should shoot for the stars.

When did I say anything about what I want?
 
IMO Republicans just need to learn to think more pragmatically and get less easily caught up in sloganeering. All the characterization about whiners and luxuries and salaries and all that is just flat out irrelevant. The only relevant question is what the actual real world impacts of such a policy would be. It seems clear to me that the impacts would be positive- more people going to college. If we started having the government pay for all college and the exact same number of people attended as do today, on average it would be a wash. Taxes would go up a bit, but the amount each person spends on education would go down, so it would even out. If more people went to college, they would be increasing the tax revenue by more than the cost of their education, so taxes would go down. We would be saving money and at the same time boosting up our GDP. No amount of rhetoric about whiners or whatever changes that, right?

We wouldn't be having "the government" pay for all college. We'd be paying for it.
 
I didn't, but I paid a whole lot less tuition that today's college kids do now, and moreover made far more money than 99% of them can now, at least if you allow for inflation.

Actually, education should not be free, not even K-12. Everyone should pay something, or education is seen as free and therefore of little value. It should not be out of reach of anyone, however, and it should be possible to graduate debt free. We don't want to make schooling difficult to obtain if we want to have an educated population.


We do want to have an educated population, don't we? The alternative is to become like a third world country.

It is possible to graduate debt free. I did it, so can anyone else.
 
It's not my goal...it's reality. There will always be a sizeable portion of society that will be limited to living wage, and another that will be limited to below living wage.

Yeah that's probably true. So what should our goal be? To give up and let things fall apart? Or to try to reduce the number of people in that boat and boost up our economy?
 
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