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Thread: A Generation Hobbled by the Soaring Cost of College

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    Re: A Generation Hobbled by the Soaring Cost of College

    Quote Originally Posted by mac View Post
    Did this post have a purpose?
    I dunno. I think it is true. I think we see that on a lot of threads. Conservatives are so used to advocating hurting people and opposing helping people that they just do it instinctively without always thinking about whether they actually believe that would be the best thing. Look at the "arguments" the folks on the right have posted on this thread. Many of them just boil down to negative ways to characterize helping people in general.
    Total tax rates- People living in poverty: 16.2%. The median American: 27%. Working people who make over $140k/year: 31%. The top 1%: 30%. Super rich investors: around 15%. Help the democrats retake the house.

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    Re: A Generation Hobbled by the Soaring Cost of College

    Quote Originally Posted by mac View Post
    The reality is that college could be completely free and a very large segment of the population would still not attain even an Associates.
    Can't argue with that one. There is no way you can give someone an education. Even if the taxpayer pays for it, it still has to be earned through hard work.
    "Donald Trump is a phony, a fraud... [he's] playing the American public for suckers." Mitt Romney

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    Re: A Generation Hobbled by the Soaring Cost of College

    Quote Originally Posted by teamosil View Post
    I dunno. I think it is true. I think we see that on a lot of threads. Conservatives are so used to advocating hurting people and opposing helping people that they just do it instinctively without always thinking about whether they actually believe that would be the best thing. Look at the "arguments" the folks on the right have posted on this thread. Many of them just boil down to negative ways to characterize helping people in general.
    So your point is nothing more than liberals = good, conservatives = bad....with no real reasoning. Got it.

    Hyper-partisanship ftl
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    Re: A Generation Hobbled by the Soaring Cost of College

    Quote Originally Posted by mac View Post
    So your point is nothing more than liberals = good, conservatives = bad....with no real reasoning. Got it.

    Hyper-partisanship ftl
    Spot on......
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    Re: A Generation Hobbled by the Soaring Cost of College

    Quote Originally Posted by teamosil View Post
    Try to state your position without any empty rhetoric at all. List off what you see as the disadvantages- like real world impacts- of government paying for school, then list off what you see as the advantages, like the ones we've discussed, and make your argument for why one is bigger than the other. If you won't even do that, you aren't really presenting a position at all, you're just repeating slogans.
    you must think you have done this to support YOUR opinions....
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    Re: A Generation Hobbled by the Soaring Cost of College

    Quote Originally Posted by UtahBill View Post
    you must think you have done this to support YOUR opinions....
    Right, I have. It's weird that you don't distinguish between just stating a conclusion and presenting the arguments to support that conclusion. The former is just a waste of time.
    Total tax rates- People living in poverty: 16.2%. The median American: 27%. Working people who make over $140k/year: 31%. The top 1%: 30%. Super rich investors: around 15%. Help the democrats retake the house.

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    Re: A Generation Hobbled by the Soaring Cost of College

    Quote Originally Posted by teamosil View Post
    Right, I have. It's weird that you don't distinguish between just stating a conclusion and presenting the arguments to support that conclusion. The former is just a waste of time.
    yeah, we know your conclusions, and they are based on delusions.....not arguments.
    What percentage of the population would you guess is stupid enough to think that a govt program that pays a salary to attend college will be anything more than a boondoggle of historic proportions?
    I will meet you halfway....I would support a govt program that chooses the top 10% of all HS students, tests THEM, and then offer full scholarships to the top 10% of those tested. That will put our top 1% of brainpower into the top universities at govt expense, BUT if they don't then use their education appropriately, they have to pay back all the money.
    Last edited by UtahBill; 05-20-12 at 03:49 PM.
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    Re: A Generation Hobbled by the Soaring Cost of College

    Quote Originally Posted by UtahBill View Post
    yeah, we know your conclusions, and they are based on delusions.....not arguments.
    What percentage of the population would you guess is stupid enough to think that a govt program that pays a salary to attend college will be anything more than a boondoggle of historic proportions?
    I will meet you halfway....I would support a govt program that chooses the top 10% of all HS students, tests THEM, and then offer full scholarships to the top 10% of those tested. That will put our top 1% of brainpower into the top universities at govt expense, BUT if they don't then use their education appropriately, they have to pay back all the money.
    First of all, I never suggested paying anybody a salary to attend school. No idea where you got that from. But, you're missing the point.

    Look at your post. Tell me, are you making an argument? Or are you just asserting your position?

    I've made boatloads of arguments. I've discussed the way our needs for education change over time, I've compared and contrasted states with higher levels of education with ones with lower levels of education, I've presented the data on salary differentials, I've talked about how those salary differences would pay for the college and then some with more tax revenues, I've talked about how the level of education here would enhance our ability to compete with other countries for jobs and compete with immigrants for the jobs that are already here.

    What arguments do you feel that you have presented? All I've seen is you asserting over and over that you think it is a stupid idea or blurting out slogans about people being lazy whiners or whatever. I haven't seen a single argument. Not one. I haven't seen you refute any of the arguments listed above. All I've seen you do is blurt out that you think they're wrong. I haven't seen you offer even one argument in favor of your position.

    I'm not trying to be a dick. I've actually been enjoying our discussion anyways. But you need to up your game a bit man. You need to start going through policy questions more carefully analyzing the advantages and disadvantages pragmatically and not just rely so easily on the first slogan that pops into your head.
    Last edited by teamosil; 05-20-12 at 04:01 PM.
    Total tax rates- People living in poverty: 16.2%. The median American: 27%. Working people who make over $140k/year: 31%. The top 1%: 30%. Super rich investors: around 15%. Help the democrats retake the house.

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    Re: A Generation Hobbled by the Soaring Cost of College

    Quote Originally Posted by teamosil View Post
    First of all, I never suggested paying anybody a salary to attend school. No idea where you got that from. But, you're missing the point.

    Look at your post. Tell me, are you making an argument? Or are you just asserting your position?

    I've made boatloads of arguments. I've discussed the way our needs for education change over time, I've compared and contrasted states with higher levels of education with ones with lower levels of education, I've presented the data on salary differentials, I've talked about how those salary differences would pay for the college and then some with more tax revenues, I've talked about how the level of education here would enhance our ability to compete with other countries for jobs and compete with immigrants for the jobs that are already here.

    What arguments do you feel that you have presented? All I've seen is you asserting over and over that you think it is a stupid idea or blurting out slogans about people being lazy whiners or whatever. I haven't seen a single argument. Not one. I haven't seen you refute any of the arguments listed above. All I've seen you do is blurt out that you think they're wrong. I haven't seen you offer even one argument in favor of your position.

    I'm not trying to be a dick. I've actually been enjoying our discussion anyways. But you need to up your game a bit man. You need to start going through policy questions more carefully analyzing the advantages and disadvantages pragmatically and not just rely so easily on the first slogan that pops into your head.
    I might have, just maybe, confused you with Fromethues Bound.....for a moment.
    Oracle of Utah
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    Re: A Generation Hobbled by the Soaring Cost of College

    This thread has gotten pretty big but I think I will put my two cents in again as I think there is much more pertaining to this. My generation has inherited a **** storm. Wages are flat, prices are high, and several in the older generations want to blame 20-somethings exclusively for their bad luck. While true that is a big part of it, my step-dads father back in the 70s could secure a $24/hr steel mill 40 hour job, a very cheap house paid off in ten years and be the only one working in a household of 5 children and live comfortably.

    In order for many to obtain this now, one, you will probably be getting paid $24/hr at a steel mill today--which by today's standards is fantastic but you would need a 30 year mortgage, and your wife will have to be working or chances are someone is going to have to have a college degree in the first place in order to offset the cost of ****.
    "We’re going to close the unproductive tax loopholes that allow some of the truly wealthy to avoid paying their fair share. In theory, some of those loopholes were understandable, but in practice they sometimes made it possible for millionaires to pay nothing, while a bus driver was paying ten percent of his salary, and that’s crazy." -Reagan

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