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Thread: A Generation Hobbled by the Soaring Cost of College

  1. #321
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    Re: A Generation Hobbled by the Soaring Cost of College

    Quote Originally Posted by UtahBill View Post
    first identify the geniuses, and educate them....there aren't very many of them, actually. So we agree to a point.
    Computer diagnostics of autos has made mechanics lazy, if the computer doesn't tell them what is wrong, they replace parts til it works again. You still need to look at the potential failures that the computers don't monitor. A car that is completely monitored will cost a lot more money than you think....
    Think of identifying and educating the geniuses as you would about identifying and training superior athletes. The point you miss is that you have to offer the recruits something far more than what the mentally talented are offered now. So only with athletes do we think of the talented as people who need immediate material incentives.

    My other point is that if we paid people for their grades, we would get the quality of people who would invent diagnostic computers that would monitor everything and also, they could use their talent to lower costs. Not only user-friendly, but worker-friendly and cost-accountant friendly.
    On the outside, trickling down on the insiders.
    We won't live free until the 1% live in fear.
    Hey, richboys! Imagine the boot of democracy stomping on your faces, forever.

  2. #322
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    idea Re: A Generation Hobbled by the Soaring Cost of College

    Quote Originally Posted by PrometheusBound View Post
    Think of identifying and educating the geniuses as you would about identifying and training superior athletes. The point you miss is that you have to offer the recruits something far more than what the mentally talented are offered now. So only with athletes do we think of the talented as people who need immediate material incentives. My other point is that if we paid people for their grades, we would get the quality of people who would invent diagnostic computers that would monitor everything and also, they could use their talent to lower costs. Not only user-friendly, but worker-friendly and cost-accountant friendly.
    if what you are saying was possible, it would have already been done....I spent many years in the installation, calibration and repair of instrumentation, and most of that was to monitor the many parameters of nuclear power plants. It is easily overdone and never cheap. It is essential at the power plant, not essential on a car that might be on the road 10 years (average age of cars on the road).
    athletes have nothing to do with this, they are just the result of stupid people paying to watch millionairs play.
    the part of your post that I bolded is telling.
    Those who need immediate gratification are seldom the ones who end up with college degrees.
    well, maybe not, if you feed a dolphin enough fish, it can be taught new tricks, and I suppose that can work with people.
    do you like fish?
    Last edited by UtahBill; 05-18-12 at 04:14 PM.
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  3. #323
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    Re: A Generation Hobbled by the Soaring Cost of College

    Quote Originally Posted by teamosil View Post
    I just fundamentally disagree with that idea. You are assuming that there are a fixed number of jobs that require educated workers. That doesn't seem to be the case at all. An educated workforce is a massive resource. Probably the biggest and most central economic resource there is. The bigger and the more educated it gets, the more the market will continue to find ways to profit off that resource. It's not like if you have two islands one with 10 inventors and one with 100 inventors, they'll both invent the same things and 90 of the inventors will be sitting idle on the second island. The second island will invent 10 times as many things. Actually, it appears that because of synchronicities between their work, the second island will invent more like 20 times as many things. Same with everything. If we have a bunch more computer programmers we will come up with more clever ways to use computers and the internet to create new fields. It propels itself forward. Educated people create their own niches to work in. That's why today we have several times as many jobs that require college degrees as we did 30 years ago, and we will have several times more in another 30 years. We aren't all that far from the point where say 80% of jobs will require at least that much education. Certainly we'll cross that line in the lifetimes of people who are in high school today.
    It's simple supply and demand. As much as you may or may not admit it, workers are a commodity. Educated workers even more so. When a commodity exceeds demand, the price drops.
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  4. #324
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    Re: A Generation Hobbled by the Soaring Cost of College

    Quote Originally Posted by Prof. Peabody View Post
    There needs to be some Government regulation on how much Colleges can charge (read that salary caps for administrators and professors).
    No there doesn't. That's called price fixing and it doesn't work, long term. However, I do support the idea of "public" universities. But I think the entry requirements should be high AND need dependent.
    ”People willing to trade their freedom for temporary security deserve neither and will lose both.” --- Ben Franklin

    Quote Originally Posted by The German View Post
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  5. #325
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    Re: A Generation Hobbled by the Soaring Cost of College

    Quote Originally Posted by UtahBill View Post
    Until he passed away last year, I had a retired economics professor living next door. He said that this current recession is way different that previous ones, and will take a lot longer to crawl out of...
    Because college education, in the indentured-servitude way it has been structured, puts inferior people in superior positions. A similar dysfunction of letting Communist Party politicians run the economy took 70 years to collapse, so it won't be long before this "Educationism" gets discredited.
    On the outside, trickling down on the insiders.
    We won't live free until the 1% live in fear.
    Hey, richboys! Imagine the boot of democracy stomping on your faces, forever.

  6. #326
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    Re: A Generation Hobbled by the Soaring Cost of College

    Quote Originally Posted by mac View Post
    It's simple supply and demand. As much as you may or may not admit it, workers are a commodity. Educated workers even more so. When a commodity exceeds demand, the price drops.
    What you're missing is that demand is not fixed. There was zero demand for database administrators 30 years ago. Now there is tons of demand for them. As more and more people get educated we move forward faster and faster with new inventions, new strategies, new business models, etc, and that drives demand up.
    Total tax rates- People living in poverty: 16.2%. The median American: 27%. Working people who make over $140k/year: 31%. The top 1%: 30%. Super rich investors: around 15%. Help the democrats retake the house.

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    Re: A Generation Hobbled by the Soaring Cost of College

    Quote Originally Posted by PrometheusBound View Post
    Because college education, in the indentured-servitude way it has been structured, puts inferior people in superior positions. A similar dysfunction of letting Communist Party politicians run the economy took 70 years to collapse, so it won't be long before this "Educationism" gets discredited.
    wait, you want a free college education so you can then find a superior position working with inferior persons ?
    Have you been tested and found to be a genius? If so, there are programs for you that will pay your books, tuition, room and board, and an allowance. How much allowance do you need?
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    Re: A Generation Hobbled by the Soaring Cost of College

    Quote Originally Posted by teamosil View Post
    What you're missing is that demand is not fixed. There was zero demand for database administrators 30 years ago. Now there is tons of demand for them. As more and more people get educated we move forward faster and faster with new inventions, new strategies, new business models, etc, and that drives demand up.
    I managed a database as part of my last job, didn't pay any extra...
    pay isn't fixed either....
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    Re: A Generation Hobbled by the Soaring Cost of College

    Quote Originally Posted by teamosil View Post
    What you're missing is that demand is not fixed.
    What you're missing is the demand is not infinite. At 30% of the population with a 4 year or better, we already have 2-5% of degreed people unemployed.

    There was zero demand for database administrators 30 years ago. Now there is tons of demand for them. As more and more people get educated we move forward faster and faster with new inventions, new strategies, new business models, etc, and that drives demand up.
    And there are plenty of dead and dieing industries that make up for the gain somewhere else...Technology doesn't just create industries, it kills them too.
    ”People willing to trade their freedom for temporary security deserve neither and will lose both.” --- Ben Franklin

    Quote Originally Posted by The German View Post
    Sterotypes are mostly based on truths.

  10. #330
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    Re: A Generation Hobbled by the Soaring Cost of College

    Quote Originally Posted by UtahBill View Post
    if what you are saying was possible, it would have already been done....I spent many years in the installation, calibration and repair of instrumentation, and most of that was to monitor the many parameters of nuclear power plants. It is easily overdone and never cheap. It is essential at the power plant, not essential on a car that might be on the road 10 years (average age of cars on the road).
    athletes have nothing to do with this, they are just the result of stupid people paying to watch millionairs play.
    the part of your post that I bolded is telling.
    Those who need immediate gratification are seldom the ones who end up with college degrees.
    well, maybe not, if you feed a dolphin enough fish, it can be taught new tricks, and I suppose that can work with people.
    do you like fish?
    As for "it would have already been done," that accepts the illogical lie that this system of not paying people to go to college produces the people who would have done it. Just like the lie that cancer must be hard to cure, even though all we have working on it are childish escapist freaks who don't earn a living until they are 30 years old. As for dismissing the fact that only superior athletes are getting incentives that are consistent with human psychological motivation, your education leaves you incompetent to make analogies. All that matters is the superiority of the talent, not what the talent is in. Thinking that High IQs will study for "the love of learning" is as dysfunctional, insulting, and subconsciously parasitic as thinking that athletes will play for "the love of the game." The pros tried that before the 50s and most of the best college athletes refused to turn pro. Similarly, I met a Bioscience grad student who got paid $600 a week plus free tuition, but what about all the potential grad students whose talent was lost because they weren't paid that for undergraduate studies? Significantly, only one of her 14 classmates was born in America. All 15 would have been Americans if we immediately and materially rewarded them like we do superior athletes, from childhood on. What's worst of all about this insult to intelligence is that we would get people mentally superior to the grad students we have now. "Deferred gratification" is a bullying insult meant to put superior minds in their place as Cash Cows for the corporations. Let business and society think long-term instead of burdening the people who actually produce all of what the others benefit from
    .
    So society is upside-down in demanding that the talented sacrifice instead of the other way around. And this propaganda about college also induces jealousy, hatred, and contempt with its lie that those with intellectual talent have it easy and rewarding.
    On the outside, trickling down on the insiders.
    We won't live free until the 1% live in fear.
    Hey, richboys! Imagine the boot of democracy stomping on your faces, forever.

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